Government approach to local authority road measures

[jnty]

Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk

Can we expect a new policy of placing amenities in the middle of nowhere then?!

[Herned]

FWIW (and I think I may have said this on the Wales thread) although I'm against the general adoption of 20 mph zones it's a sensible enough upper limit on most residential side streets (and frequently town centres), but otherwise not on through routes.

Are people who live on "through routes" less important? That's the issue, in a great deal of places the main road is still a residential street. Why should the people driving through somewhere prevail over the residents?

[jnty]

FWIW (and I think I may have said this on the Wales thread) although I'm against the general adoption of 20 mph zones it's a sensible enough upper limit on most residential side streets (and frequently town centres), but otherwise not on through routes.

Are people who live on "through routes" less important? That's the issue, in a great deal of places the main road is still a residential street. Why should the people driving through somewhere prevail over the residents?

Not to mention that this policy announcement also aims to ensure that as many residential streets remain through routes as possible by discouraging modal filters.

[BF2142]

15 minute cities have well-known limitations, the main one being that they are difficult to establish in existing built-up areas which have long-established patterns of travel between retail, residential, commercial and industrial areas. I very much doubt they will have any impact in the U.K.

The other obvious criticism is - 15 minutes measured against which person’s travel time? I can cover considerably further distance on foot in 15 mins than my parents.

What genuinely concerns me is that they are presented as self-evidently necessary and positive. This report says absolutely nothing about their limitations https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-56406943. It’s obviously idealistic cobblers which won’t work. But what sticks in my craw is that we never ever hear the other side of the story from LAs or get any admission that some of these ideas simply won’t work. Some would call that propaganda and undemocratic.

I don’t think Sunak is planning to curtail the use LTNs etc for any of these reasons but I would hope it will give LAs pause for thought about the necessity for some of these schemes.

[Owain]

Considerable comment in recent days about government getting to grips with various local authority road measures

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66965714

Now many of these points have been discussed here in the past. But noticeable how they have all come together.

For me, it is undesirable how politicised it has become...

I think the prime minister's statement of intent is nothing more than a diversion tactic (no pun intended!) to distract from the fact that there are at least half a dozen far more serious issues on which his government urgently needs to get a grip. He has no hope of succeeding, because he's hamstrung by clueless ministers, and flatlining in the polls as an election looms.

[jnty]

I don’t think Sunak is planning to curtail the use LTNs etc for any of these reasons but I would hope it will give LAs pause for thought about the necessity for some of these schemes.

This is key, isn't it. Sunak is just leaning into conspiracy theories and blind reactionaryism with this stuff. Stopped clocks may be right twice a day but you can't use them to run a country.

[Glenn A]

The most hated offical for many motorists, the traffic warden( nowadays mostly called an enforcement officer), was created by the Conservatives in 1958, same as people who were running pre war cars that were falling to pieces and unsafe to drive were angry when the same party introduced the MOT in 1960. These were responses to growing traffic congestion in town centres and tens of thousands of unsafe cars being on the road, which was quite sensible. Similarly the 70 mph speed limit was introduced by a Labour government to reduce accidents, as there had been concerns about ton up boys on motorbikes causing serious accidents and sports car manufacturers testing cars at 150 mph on the M1. Most people would agree these were sensible measures and the last one being quite sensible as many cars then had poor brakes and little in the way of safety equipment. However, as time has passed and cars have become a lot safer, there have been calls to raise the motorway speed limit to 80 mph.
I think whoever is in office will pass legislation which they believe will make roads safer. 20 mph limits, which have been introduced by the Labour government in Wales and a Conservative council in the Scottish Borders, are supposed to make roads far safer. I can understand in a place like Hawick, with narrow streets and plenty of parked cars, this is a good thing, but a blanket 20 mph speed limit across all of Wales and the Borders isn't needed.

[B1040]

The most hated offical for many motorists, the traffic warden

I wish they visited my home town more often.
The people who block sightlines by parking on double yellows are spoiling it for everyone else, including pedestrians.

[RichardA35]

Disappointing to see people getting worked up and defending the nonsense that's the plague of speed limit reductions..

I'd suggest that people so desperate to save a bit of time need to look elsewhere about why they're in such a hurry all the time, and would be rather better off trying to slow down their pace of life.

[Owain]

The most hated offical for many motorists, the traffic warden

I wish they visited my home town more often.
The people who block sightlines by parking on double yellows are spoiling it for everyone else, including pedestrians.

I do recall being in an estate agent's premises in Bradford-on-Avon many years ago, when an elderly lady wearing tweed stepped in and told everybody, with an awfully polite tone of mild outrage: "Do you know that there's a parking ticket on every single one of the cars down that street?"

I looked out of the window and replied, "Well, they shouldn't have parked on the double yellow lines, should they?"

This the street she was talking about.

[Bryn666]

Much like raw sewage in the ocean, the railway network falling apart, our global positioning thanks to Brextremists, this government has only one policy left: wreck everything so no other government can repair the damage left behind.

When road deaths go up, when crossing the road becomes a nightmare because of "pro-motorist futurism" or whatever nonsense they're calling it, who will they blame?

[aj444]

When road deaths go up, when crossing the road becomes a nightmare because of "pro-motorist futurism" or whatever nonsense they're calling it, who will they blame?

That's not being proposed though is it?

[Bryn666]

When road deaths go up, when crossing the road becomes a nightmare because of "pro-motorist futurism" or whatever nonsense they're calling it, who will they blame?

That's not being proposed though is it?

Telling local authorities they can't have 20 limits or traffic calming is exactly what they are proposing. That will cause road deaths to rise.

Oh, and wave bye bye to bus lanes as well, they apparently obstruct motorists too much. That will also cause fewer bus journeys, meaning more people drive and as a logical consequence injuries and deaths will rise due to extra miles being driven.

Policy by Daily Mail is bad policy. But I suppose it keeps the red faced angry old men who think their precious motor car is God happy. Meanwhile the country is being screwed over for a few Mr Toad votes.

[deadeye]

When road deaths go up, when crossing the road becomes a nightmare because of "pro-motorist futurism" or whatever nonsense they're calling it, who will they blame?

That's not being proposed though is it?

Meanwhile the country is being screwed over for a few Mr Toad votes.

I suppose that remains to be seen at the next election.

[exiled]

Telling local authorities they can't have 20 limits or traffic calming is exactly what they are proposing. That will cause road deaths to rise.

Oh, and wave bye bye to bus lanes as well, they apparently obstruct motorists too much. That will also cause fewer bus journeys, meaning more people drive and as a logical consequence injuries and deaths will rise due to extra miles being driven.

Policy by Daily Mail is bad policy. But I suppose it keeps the red faced angry old men who think their precious motor car is God happy. Meanwhile the country is being screwed over for a few Mr Toad votes.

It is also a power grab against the likes of the metro mayors and the devolved governments. This is saying 'you can have local accountability as long as it is approved by unelected mandarins within the Tory HQ/Tufton Street'

[Bryn666]

Telling local authorities they can't have 20 limits or traffic calming is exactly what they are proposing. That will cause road deaths to rise.

Oh, and wave bye bye to bus lanes as well, they apparently obstruct motorists too much. That will also cause fewer bus journeys, meaning more people drive and as a logical consequence injuries and deaths will rise due to extra miles being driven.

Policy by Daily Mail is bad policy. But I suppose it keeps the red faced angry old men who think their precious motor car is God happy. Meanwhile the country is being screwed over for a few Mr Toad votes.

It is also a power grab against the likes of the metro mayors and the devolved governments. This is saying 'you can have local accountability as long as it is approved by unelected mandarins within the Tory HQ/Tufton Street'

Sunak has proven he hates localism more than Johnson could ever have dreamt of.

[exiled]

Sunak has proven he hates localism more than Johnson could ever have dreamt of.

Not just localism, he appears to be picking arguments with Edinburgh and Cardiff over areas of devolved competences such as the 20 mph in Wales. Even Johnson seemed to realise the Welsh and Scottish Governments had their own mandated responsible to their electorates via the Senedd and Scottish Parliament. Sunak seems to think both should be branch offices of Downing Street.

[JohnnyMo]

When road deaths go up, when crossing the road becomes a nightmare because of "pro-motorist futurism" or whatever nonsense they're calling it, who will they blame?

That's not being proposed though is it?

Telling local authorities they can't have 20 limits or traffic calming is exactly what they are proposing. That will cause road deaths to rise.

AFAIU No one is saying LA can't have 20 mph limits only LA can't impose blanket 20 mph limits.
The rational is where there is need for a 20mph them impose it there, a blanket 20 mph just results in it being ignored even when it is appropriate.

Whether you agree or not these is clear evidence that inappropriate speed limits are more dangerous in the long run.

Oh, and wave bye bye to bus lanes as well, they apparently obstruct motorists too much. That will also cause fewer bus journeys, meaning more people drive and as a logical consequence injuries and deaths will rise due to extra miles being driven.

Some vague noise about restricting bus lanes to when buses actually run, unless you have something more specific.

Policy by Daily Mail is bad policy. But I suppose it keeps the red faced angry old men who think their precious motor car is God happy. Meanwhile the country is being screwed over for a few Mr Toad votes.

I'm not a fan of the Daily Wail either but people have a right to their views without personal insults.

[Bryn666]

People who put the rights of metal boxes over living beings are not worthy of even a personal insult, they're beneath contempt.

[ForestChav]

Sunak has proven he hates localism more than Johnson could ever have dreamt of.

Not just localism, he appears to be picking arguments with Edinburgh and Cardiff over areas of devolved competences such as the 20 mph in Wales. Even Johnson seemed to realise the Welsh and Scottish Governments had their own mandated responsible to their electorates via the Senedd and Scottish Parliament. Sunak seems to think both should be branch offices of Downing Street.

I'm not 100% how it works. But, isn't it that the Westminster government is for the United Kingdom, and that the Scots/Welsh parliaments are for Scotland and Wales. So Scotland and Wales are part of the UK, yet have representation both locally and nationally... Sunak as head of the Westminster government can indeed act nationally. I don't think we've come across the situation yet where legally Westminster and say the Senedd act in opposite directions, I don't think it would, because they would decide on a compromise or agree that one has the overall say on the matter concerned, but it could happen.

We saw in the covid response for example that Boris initially locked down and I think this did initially apply to the whole UK but at later points it was deemed appropriate for the UK government to act only on England and allow the Scottish and Welsh governments to act locally, which is why we had some variance and indeed some silliness like clothes aisles in Welsh supermarkets being cordoned off.

Even in that time there was friction between Gov policy and local politicians within England like Sadiq Khan and Andy Burnham...