Average speed cameras

[Glenn A]

I was driving from Carlisle to Hexham and noticed these are becoming common, along with standalone cameras. The section of the A689 from the roundabout with the B6264 to the A69 is now completely monitored by ASCs, which can face both ways, and the A69 from Bardon Mill to the start of the D2 is monitored. Also there are standalone cameras at Low Row, Melkridge and the A69/ 6079 at grade junction. I wonder how long it is before ASCs are extended along the whole A69, as the D2 section east of the junction with the B6528, where all the junctions are grade seperated, is something of a race track.

[ravenbluemoon]

They're very common in Nottinghamshire now. A lot of the main routes out of Nottingham have them now - A610 out to the M1, A614 Redhill to Ollerton, A60 through Sherwood then Redhill to Seven Mile (this whole road to Mansfield is a frustrating slog nowadays), most/all of the A6514 from memory.

Also a few further out, like the A6097 that's being discussed elsewhere, and the S2 parts of the A38, where 50 is impossible for most of the day anyway. Oh, and a few sections of the Mansfield inner ring road have them now.

In fact, normal standalone cameras are quite rare now. I can think of only one locally, and I'm convinced it is a dummy, because in the 20 years I've lived nearby I've never seen it flash or be maintained.

[Truvelo]

A recent news article suggested around half the standalone cameras in the UK are now out of use. This I can believe. Those in the West Midlands went out of action nearly a decade ago and many in other areas are now hidden behind hedgerows and other foliage meaning they are only capable of taking photos of leaves and branches. I've been out of the speed camera game for several years now so I don't really know what the position is regarding the first generation Gatso cameras other than to assume the prospect of using traditional photographic film is something most scameraships will no longer entertain these days.

[Glenn A]

A recent news article suggested around half the standalone cameras in the UK are now out of use. This I can believe. Those in the West Midlands went out of action nearly a decade ago and many in other areas are now hidden behind hedgerows and other foliage meaning they are only capable of taking photos of leaves and branches. I've been out of the speed camera game for several years now so I don't really know what the position is regarding the first generation Gatso cameras other than to assume the prospect of using traditional photographic film is something most scameraships will no longer entertain these days.

The two cameras at Low Row were removed, probably because they used photographic film, but two new ones have been installed and the ones used as ASC look to be digital and very recent. Also they have two cameras, so speeding up once you've passed one isn't a good idea as you can be photographed from the rear. I suppose the reason they have been installed on the A689 is the Crosby on Eden by pass is quite a racetrack and being wide S2, you seem tempted to speed up.

[Ruperts Trooper]

A recent news article suggested around half the standalone cameras in the UK are now out of use. This I can believe. Those in the West Midlands went out of action nearly a decade ago and many in other areas are now hidden behind hedgerows and other foliage meaning they are only capable of taking photos of leaves and branches. I've been out of the speed camera game for several years now so I don't really know what the position is regarding the first generation Gatso cameras other than to assume the prospect of using traditional photographic film is something most scameraships will no longer entertain these days.

As a generalisation, average speed cameras are more use than standalone cameras - almost all drivers seem to stick to the posted limit when there's average speed cameras - whereas many drivers will allow their speed to increase above the limit if there's no cameras.

[Glenn A]

A recent news article suggested around half the standalone cameras in the UK are now out of use. This I can believe. Those in the West Midlands went out of action nearly a decade ago and many in other areas are now hidden behind hedgerows and other foliage meaning they are only capable of taking photos of leaves and branches. I've been out of the speed camera game for several years now so I don't really know what the position is regarding the first generation Gatso cameras other than to assume the prospect of using traditional photographic film is something most scameraships will no longer entertain these days.

As a generalisation, average speed cameras are more use than standalone cameras - almost all drivers seem to stick to the posted limit when there's average speed cameras - whereas many drivers will allow their speed to increase above the limit if there's no cameras.

Yes they're more effective as I've seen drivers suddenly slow down when they see the yellow box in the distance, then speed up again when they've passed it. ASCs are probably better as people are more wary of their speed, although being on the A69 last week behind two lorries doing 50 mph meant there was no way I could break the speed limit.

[IanRB]

A recent news article suggested around half the standalone cameras in the UK are now out of use. This I can believe. Those in the West Midlands went out of action nearly a decade ago and many in other areas are now hidden behind hedgerows and other foliage meaning they are only capable of taking photos of leaves and branches. I've been out of the speed camera game for several years now so I don't really know what the position is regarding the first generation Gatso cameras other than to assume the prospect of using traditional photographic film is something most scameraships will no longer entertain these days.

As a generalisation, average speed cameras are more use than standalone cameras - almost all drivers seem to stick to the posted limit when there's average speed cameras - whereas many drivers will allow their speed to increase above the limit if there's no cameras.

Yes they're more effective as I've seen drivers suddenly slow down when they see the yellow box in the distance, then speed up again when they've passed it. ASCs are probably better as people are more wary of their speed, although being on the A69 last week behind two lorries doing 50 mph meant there was no way I could break the speed limit.

But if you've done 2 miles at 50 MPH you can do another 2 at 70 MPH, and still maintain an average of 60.

[wallmeerkat]

They're popular in NI on some of the busier routes such as A2 to Bangor and A24 Saintfield Road

Interestingly the ones that were in place on the old A1 before sections were bypassed by a new D2 are still standing

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.2238019 ... ?entry=ttu

I'm not sure if they're active, it is no longer a busy route, though it may deter drivers using it as a racetrack.

I remember when they were introduced to the A77 between Stranraer and Ayr, IIRC it was the longest stretch at the time?

Though when I was travelling the M6 through England in 2019, with the "smart" motorway works there were temporary limits and average speed cameras everywhere.

[Sirsquinn]

Currently being Installed on Leeds ring road between Horsforth and Dawsons Corner, and continue onto A647. First in West Yorkshire I believe. Cameras have been mounted onto streetlight columns, which is something I've not seen before either.

[JammyDodge]

I prefer average cameras from a compliance and safety standpoint. As has been said, they enforce compliance significantly better than standalone units.
Why they haven't been used on Smart Motorways is something I will never understand to be honest.
Also, I think average cameras are significantly underused in urban areas. There is often an issue with road design that enable higher speeds, but this cannot always be solved, example would be Great North Road in Newcastle. Its very straight and quite wide, you cant really do much more with it other than full time enforcement. The only place I have ever seen then in an urban setting is on Springdale Road in Broadstone, Poole

Places I think could do with average cameras in Newcastle is:
1) A189 between Stanhope Street and Ilford Road
2) B1313 (Great North Road) between Claremont Road and Moorfield
3) A167 between the B6324 and Kenton Lane
4) A1058 between Central Motorway and Heaton Road
5) A189 Redheugh Bridge

[Chris Bertram]

As a generalisation, average speed cameras are more use than standalone cameras - almost all drivers seem to stick to the posted limit when there's average speed cameras - whereas many drivers will allow their speed to increase above the limit if there's no cameras.

Yes they're more effective as I've seen drivers suddenly slow down when they see the yellow box in the distance, then speed up again when they've passed it. ASCs are probably better as people are more wary of their speed, although being on the A69 last week behind two lorries doing 50 mph meant there was no way I could break the speed limit.

But if you've done 2 miles at 50 MPH you can do another 2 at 70 MPH, and still maintain an average of 60.

It's pretty rare for there to be a 4 mile gap between cameras.

[hoagy_ytfc]

But if you've done 2 miles at 50 MPH you can do another 2 at 70 MPH, and still maintain an average of 60.

A pedant writes: that would be an average of 58.3mph

So you could do a tad over 70.

[Scratchwood]

As a general question, do average speed cameras just care about your overall journey, or do they log your average speed between individual cameras as well?

For example I have a 4 mile journey between camera A and camera C on a 50 road. I drive at 30 in heavy traffic for the 2 miles between camera A and camera B. Then I speed up and do 70 between camera B and camera C.

Overall I've done 4 miles between A and C within the speed limit, but have been speeding for half of it, so would I be charged for the latter?

Maybe answering my own question, the whole route between the London/Kent border and just before the Blackwall tunnel along the A2 and A102 has a 50 average speed limit, but this includes a set of traffic lights (westbound) at Kidbrooke, so I'm guessing the average speed HAS to be calculated on individual sections, rather than the whole journey?

[Chris Bertram]

As a general question, do average speed cameras just care about your overall journey, or do they log your average speed between individual cameras as well?

For example I have a 4 mile journey between camera A and camera C on a 50 road. I drive at 30 in heavy traffic for the 2 miles between camera A and camera B. Then I speed up and do 70 between camera B and camera C.

Overall I've done 4 miles between A and C within the speed limit, but have been speeding for half of it, so would I be charged for the latter?

Maybe answering my own question, the whole route between the London/Kent border and just before the Blackwall tunnel along the A2 and A102 has a 50 average speed limit, but this includes a set of traffic lights (westbound) at Kidbrooke, so I'm guessing the average speed HAS to be calculated on individual sections, rather than the whole journey?

The answer is, I'm pretty sure, yes you would be charged, as you'd exceeded the speed limit, even if only for a short while, and it could be demonstrated that you had. The slower speed between the second pair of cameras does not provide mitigation for the offence, which is strict liability.

[danfw194]

I always wonder how many people get pulled up for offences in average speed camera areas, because a lot of time I've found myself doing exactly the speed limit on a dual carriageway and yet still a steady stream of traffic overtaking me. Do people still not twig how these things work? Do people simply not care? Or do they not prosecute upto say 10% over the limit and people have cottoned onto that?

[Ruperts Trooper]

I always wonder how many people get pulled up for offences in average speed camera areas, because a lot of time I've found myself doing exactly the speed limit on a dual carriageway and yet still a steady stream of traffic overtaking me. Do people still not twig how these things work? Do people simply not care? Or do they not prosecute upto say 10% over the limit and people have cottoned onto that?

The latter (I hope!) although some drivers do slow down for each camera so don't understand "average".

[AndyB]

As a general question, do average speed cameras just care about your overall journey, or do they log your average speed between individual cameras as well?

For example I have a 4 mile journey between camera A and camera C on a 50 road. I drive at 30 in heavy traffic for the 2 miles between camera A and camera B. Then I speed up and do 70 between camera B and camera C.

Overall I've done 4 miles between A and C within the speed limit, but have been speeding for half of it, so would I be charged for the latter?

Maybe answering my own question, the whole route between the London/Kent border and just before the Blackwall tunnel along the A2 and A102 has a 50 average speed limit, but this includes a set of traffic lights (westbound) at Kidbrooke, so I'm guessing the average speed HAS to be calculated on individual sections, rather than the whole journey?

Without giving too much away, it depends on which cameras time you and which are drogues. The likelihood is that you are not timed going through traffic lights or round roundabouts because slowing down for roundabouts is inevitable and very likely for traffic lights, and the cameras work on a very simple basis: distance (for which the cameras are calibrated) over time elapsed between the two nominated cameras.

They're popular in NI on some of the busier routes such as A2 to Bangor and A24 Saintfield Road

Interestingly the ones that were in place on the old A1 before sections were bypassed by a new D2 are still standing

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.2238019 ... ?entry=ttu

I'm not sure if they're active, it is no longer a busy route, though it may deter drivers using it as a racetrack.

I remember when they were introduced to the A77 between Stranraer and Ayr, IIRC it was the longest stretch at the time?

Though when I was travelling the M6 through England in 2019, with the "smart" motorway works there were temporary limits and average speed cameras everywhere.

The cameras on the old A1 are no longer listed as active, and nor is the fixed GATSO on the Saintfield Road where one friend of mine got caught three times in the one day.

[ravenbluemoon]

I always wonder how many people get pulled up for offences in average speed camera areas, because a lot of time I've found myself doing exactly the speed limit on a dual carriageway and yet still a steady stream of traffic overtaking me. Do people still not twig how these things work? Do people simply not care? Or do they not prosecute upto say 10% over the limit and people have cottoned onto that?

I think it is noted a lot that in 50mph roadworks zones on motorways, most HGV drivers will still be riding the limiter at 56 and get away with it. So you'll often find a platoon of cars cruising along in lane 3 at an indicated 56/57mph, but rarely much faster. Same seems to be the case on the S2 ones around here, if you're not stuck behind a tractor or a Doris in a Yaris.

[orudge]

It’s pretty rare for there to be a 4 mile gap between cameras.

I guess that must depend on how long the camera deployment is. In Scotland we have a number of long-distance deployments, on the A9, A77, A90 etc. The A90 stretch is around 50 miles, and there can be reasonable gaps between cameras. Certainly 5-10 miles in some cases. I think they generally went in where the GATSOs used to be.

[AndyB]

Average speed cameras are largely self-enforcing. GATSOs is officially average speed over a matter of metres, but Average Speed is typically at least a kilometre between active cameras, and someone who accelerates to an indicated 55 and notices is likely not to exceed 50mph overall. Unless you get a flying lap as it were, with green lights before you hit the first active camera, someone caught will have peaked well over the posted limit.