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Dougman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 08:35
I was in a meeting yesterday where Transport Scotland were describing their plans to change the control destinations for Scottish trunk road signing, basically if the place isn't on the trunk road network it won't be a control destination going forward and some new places on newer trunk roads will. So, for example, St Andrews will be dropped but Skye will be added.
Might end one of the quirks between St Andrews and Edinburgh where northbound St Andrews is signed off the A92 for the A914, but southbound at Cupar Edinburgh is signed for the A91 to the north and join the A92 there.
I don't confess to fully understand signage but those aren't playing the role of control destinations, are they? I think control destinations are the 'forward' destinations that are signed repeatedly at junctions, appear on RCS and are used to help drivers understand which direction of a road they should join. If they're not allowed to sign St Andrews (or any non-trunk-road destination) anywhere on the A92 then it will be impossible to routefind to anywhere around the East Neuk as the A92 is the easternmost Fife trunk road.
All this begs the question whether St Andrew is actually used as a control destination that much anyway? I've often thought it's quite undersigned for its level of local importance, presumably due to its slightly 'dead end' location in the road network.
Chris Bertram wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 07:57
"Lough Ree, oh Lough Ree,
Where the three counties meet,
Longford, Westmeath and Roscommon ..."
Believe me, you don’t want to be on a boat on Lough Ree in a gale force 6 or worse. It is a very big lake with very open, exposed stretches of water and is fairly shallow with many nasty shoals and rocks in the middle of the lake and often extending far out from headlands. The waves can be very, very big.
My family had a cruiser on the Shannon in my 1980s childhood and a very rough crossing of the lake - which my dad was usually keen to do if we had to get back to the marina where our boat was moored in Athlone - was pretty terrifying for the rest of us!
Last edited by Enceladus on Wed Jan 17, 2024 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
Dougman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 08:35
I was in a meeting yesterday where Transport Scotland were describing their plans to change the control destinations for Scottish trunk road signing, basically if the place isn't on the trunk road network it won't be a control destination going forward and some new places on newer trunk roads will. So, for example, St Andrews will be dropped but Skye will be added.
Might end one of the quirks between St Andrews and Edinburgh where northbound St Andrews is signed off the A92 for the A914, but southbound at Cupar Edinburgh is signed for the A91 to the north and join the A92 there.
I don't confess to fully understand signage but those aren't playing the role of control destinations, are they? I think control destinations are the 'forward' destinations that are signed repeatedly at junctions, appear on RCS and are used to help drivers understand which direction of a road they should join. If they're not allowed to sign St Andrews (or any non-trunk-road destination) anywhere on the A92 then it will be impossible to routefind to anywhere around the East Neuk as the A92 is the easternmost Fife trunk road.
All this begs the question whether St Andrew is actually used as a control destination that much anyway? I've often thought it's quite undersigned for its level of local importance, presumably due to its slightly 'dead end' location in the road network.
Might end one of the quirks between St Andrews and Edinburgh where northbound St Andrews is signed off the A92 for the A914, but southbound at Cupar Edinburgh is signed for the A91 to the north and join the A92 there.
I don't confess to fully understand signage but those aren't playing the role of control destinations, are they? I think control destinations are the 'forward' destinations that are signed repeatedly at junctions, appear on RCS and are used to help drivers understand which direction of a road they should join. If they're not allowed to sign St Andrews (or any non-trunk-road destination) anywhere on the A92 then it will be impossible to routefind to anywhere around the East Neuk as the A92 is the easternmost Fife trunk road.
All this begs the question whether St Andrew is actually used as a control destination that much anyway? I've often thought it's quite undersigned for its level of local importance, presumably due to its slightly 'dead end' location in the road network.
Again though, does that count as a 'control destination'? The A91 east of there isn't trunk so apart from Bow of Fife roundabout where it crosses the A92 there are no 'trunk' destinations which can be reasonably signed.
For most of North and Mid Wales' county towns their place as a road hub or not is generally one of topography. That said the larger settlements in various counties that would have been the obvious place for a county town would probably have grown around road or rail junctions.
Interestingly a number of Welsh county towns are rather anachronistic when looked at today. Denbighshire for example has, despite the name, always had Rhuthun as its county town. I'd imagine this was down to the fact that Rhuthun was the location of the Court buildings for the county as well as the Gaol, and when county councils were created it made sense to headquarter administration there.
Another interesting observance is how market towns, especially livestock market towns, became obvious road hubs without having to be the "county town". North Shropshire is a great example of this as there are no fewer than three "hubs" at Whitchurch, Oswestry and Shrewsbury which are obvious local roads hubs, with only one actually being a county town.
The town of Dumfries fits this thread perfectly as a hub.
Prior to local government reorganisation in Scotland in 1974 it was the the county town of
Dumfriesshire and radiating off its town centre were the :-
A76 to Kilmarnock,
A701 to Edinburgh,
A709 to Lockerbie ,
A710 to Dalbeattie via the Solway Coast,
and the A 711 to Kirkudbright via Dalbeattie and Castle Douglas.
Not strictly in the spirit in the thread but could have an honourable mention would be of course
the A75 east to Gretna and West to Stranraer.
Enceladus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 01:43
Here in Ireland, quite a few county towns would qualify for roads hub status - ...
It's not a particularly major road hub, but I reckon Monaghan's uncreatively-named county town qualifies too. The N2 meets the N12 and N54 at a roundabout on the edge of the town, with a variety of regional roads (although most are relatively unimportant) radiating from the town or just outside it.
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My travelled roads can be found here.
Enceladus wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 01:43
Here in Ireland, quite a few county towns would qualify for roads hub status - ...
It's not a particularly major road hub, but I reckon Monaghan's uncreatively-named county town qualifies too. The N2 meets the N12 and N54 at a roundabout on the edge of the town, with a variety of regional roads (although most are relatively unimportant) radiating from the town or just outside it.
Yes indeed, I’d forgotten about Monaghan town. Its status as a roads hub is very apparent from the maps although due to the border with Northern Ireland, during the Troubles era its status as a hub was diminished somewhat.
Quite a few other Irish County towns are clear hubs too - Carlow, Tullamore, Mullingar, Roscommon town, Cavan, Castlebar and Ennis.
varga wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:12
Kendal,Lincoln, Stafford, York. Obviously
...
counter example would be Lancaster, because in Lancashire its Preston where all the major Highways meet
However Preston is where Lancashire county hall is situated.
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varga wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 11:12
Kendal,Lincoln, Stafford, York. Obviously
...
counter example would be Lancaster, because in Lancashire its Preston where all the major Highways meet
However Preston is where Lancashire county hall is situated.
in antiquity in that area,the main town was Penwortham.
Penwortham is next door to Preston, facing it from the Ribble's South bank. in the 11 th century was by miles the largest settlement in that region with a motte and Bailey castle to boot!
That goes some way to explaining Preston being a main road nucleus, I would have thought
Until the 12th century there was no Lancashire.
north of the Ribble, Lancashire was in Yorkshire, Westmorland too
south of it was called in the Domesday book ' 'inter ripam et mersam' ' ... Latin = between the Ribble and Mersey ... it was administratively part of Cheshire
