M4 Reading dynamic wicket signs

[Bristol]

I was driving past Reading on the M4 the other day and in the 4-lane smart motorway section I saw there's some kind of dynamic wicket signs set out, as seen on google maps here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4348457 ... ?entry=ttu. The signs seem to have a flap for each lane that can show either an arrowhead or a wicket, and a retractable blind when they're not in use (in theory).

The signs seem to be in a state of disrepair and contradicting each other, with one of them showing something like |T|| - does that aspect even exist in the UK? - and one of the blinds looked ripped off.

I presume the whole thing is a not-very-successful trial of some new "innovation"?

EDIT: P.S. Apologies if these are already in the "manky signs" thread somewhere.

[Darren]

I think they're a generic smart motorway thing. I've seen them on the M25, for example:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/GzT7LHerptMCN1LV9

and there are digital versions too:

M20 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/MS64qu7nBtJNhe186
M3 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/iwrneBeLcQodp4rk9

I guess they're meant to provide finer control over lane closures than the overhead gantries, but in the hundreds of journeys I've taken on smart motorways over the years - I've never once seen then in use.

[Chris5156]

I guess they're meant to provide finer control over lane closures than the overhead gantries, but in the hundreds of journeys I've taken on smart motorways over the years - I've never once seen then in use.

They’re for use during roadworks, to save workers having to get across four lanes of traffic to set out temporary signs. The idea is that the signs are already there and can be remotely activated and set.

The fully electronic ones are called ROTTMS (Remotely Operated Temporary Traffic Management System) and are controlled from the roadside rather than the control centre. They are almost never used and we’ve had conversations on here before about whether they are effectively a failed experiment.

[Big L]

Failed in that they display non-existent lane closures. Kind of like the smart motorway electronic signs tend to.

[traffic-light-man]

The signs in the OP seem to be on quick fit frames rather than permanently installed, which is interesting. They look similar to the ones installed on the (non-SM) M6 between J31 and J32 which I don't think I've ever seen in use.

I know there was a spate of using temporary, portable prism signs at long term roadworks to much the same ends as described by Chris - I believe the intention was that it was easier and safer to install regular changes in layout (i.e. overnight lane closures, etc) without needing to have personnel changing the signs over every time there was a change.

I haven't seen those for a good while now, but the M62 SM works between Warrington and Salford used a speed limit variant of the prism signs for a good while, varying the speed limit between 60, 50 and 40.

[WHBM]

There were a couple on the M25 northern section. One of the issues was them being not fully covered over when not in use, just rotated "sideways", although they seem incapable of true 90 degrees to the traffic, and are subject to being blown into inappropriate view by strong winds. Like today.

This one on the M25 went a couple of years ago, although the post remains

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6854582 ... ?entry=ttu

[Conekicker]

In an ideal world, theoretically a good piece of kit.

The main problem - and it's a big one - is that this type of sign is electromechanical.

Which means there are multiple points of failure on a piece of kit that is deployed in a very dirty environment.

In all weather conditions.

Sat at the side of a motorway, less than 2m away from passing traffic, is considerably less than an ideal world.

'nuff said.

[RichardA35]

In an ideal world, theoretically a good piece of kit.

The main problem - and it's a big one - is that this type of sign is electromechanical.

Which means there are multiple points of failure on a piece of kit that is deployed in a very dirty environment.

In all weather conditions.

Sat at the side of a motorway, less than 2m away from passing traffic, is considerably less than an ideal world.

'nuff said.

Design of sign with the aim of reducing the number of lane closures to install lane closure signs requires regular lane closures for its maintenance. But "Innovation"......

[Conekicker]

In an ideal world, theoretically a good piece of kit.

The main problem - and it's a big one - is that this type of sign is electromechanical.

Which means there are multiple points of failure on a piece of kit that is deployed in a very dirty environment.

In all weather conditions.

Sat at the side of a motorway, less than 2m away from passing traffic, is considerably less than an ideal world.

'nuff said.

Design of sign with the aim of reducing the number of lane closures to install lane closure signs requires regular lane closures for its maintenance. But "Innovation"......

What is this "Maintenance of signs" you speak of? Most TM crews don't even possess a screwdriver, much less anything to maintain something as complex as those things. They break, they get left there until the closure comes off, unless boot leather is applied to posteriors.

[RichardA35]

In an ideal world, theoretically a good piece of kit.

The main problem - and it's a big one - is that this type of sign is electromechanical.

Which means there are multiple points of failure on a piece of kit that is deployed in a very dirty environment.

In all weather conditions.

Sat at the side of a motorway, less than 2m away from passing traffic, is considerably less than an ideal world.

'nuff said.

Design of sign with the aim of reducing the number of lane closures to install lane closure signs requires regular lane closures for its maintenance. But "Innovation"......

What is this "Maintenance of signs" you speak of? Most TM crews don't even possess a screwdriver, much less anything to maintain something as complex as those things. They break, they get left there until the closure comes off, unless boot leather is applied to posteriors.

I absolutely would not expect TM crews to have a screwdriver or even have read its instruction manual. I would expect a mechanical fitter or electrician to wield the tools whilst the closure was on.
The drive behind installing these signs on the sections of M25 I was involved with widening came from the area maintenance teams and their mangement as it was a knee jerk to an HSE prohibition notice. They must have known they did not have the budget for future closures for maintenance or possess people with the skills to keep them working but these are the people who are probably running National Highways England now.

[Bomag]

I guess they're meant to provide finer control over lane closures than the overhead gantries, but in the hundreds of journeys I've taken on smart motorways over the years - I've never once seen then in use.

They’re for use during roadworks, to save workers having to get across four lanes of traffic to set out temporary signs. The idea is that the signs are already there and can be remotely activated and set.

The fully electronic ones are called ROTTMS (Remotely Operated Temporary Traffic Management System) and are controlled from the roadside rather than the control centre. They are almost never used and we’ve had conversations on here before about whether they are effectively a failed experiment.

Well if they were all controlled by the contractor then it would be a whole lot more effective. The problem was that there was the insistence that it was integrated into the 4 call system. The less ROCs have to do with road works the better.

[nowster]

The fully electronic ones are called ROTTMS (Remotely Operated Temporary Traffic Management System) and are controlled from the roadside rather than the control centre. They are almost never used and we’ve had conversations on here before about whether they are effectively a failed experiment.

And my views on using VMS/VSL for setting up traffic management for roadworks are also known: either use them consistently or not at all.

[domcoop]

The fixed version has been installed on the M62 smart motorway between the M60 (Eccles) and M6(Croft). I have never seen it in use. Despite the fact that this Smart Motorway was only completed in mid 2020 (so presumably the equipment was working then?), they've never used it, even though there have been regular closures and coning off of the exit at Junction 10 in connection with the M6 smart motorway scheme that started in March 2021! I have seen various combinations to indicate lane closures of the main overhead gantries being used and manual road signs being dropped off and lifted when they've put down and taken up the cones. It's all a bit strange.