M62 bridge to be replaced in September

[wrinkly]

According to discussion on the Rail UK Forums, the bridge carrying the Manchester-Rochdale Calder Valley line over the M62 between junctions 19 and 20, which has structural problems, is to be replaced in September, requiring a rail closure between 6th and 24th September. No news yet on how long the M62 will be closed.

[Gav]

Looks like a significant closure will be involved. I saw 5 weeks were being discussed.

[wrinkly]

Looks like a significant closure will be involved. I saw 5 weeks were being discussed.

That's 5 weeks' closure of the M62?

[nowster]

It's here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAsnGsDQzCrXtnZCA

And I doubt closing one of the busiest stretches of motorway in the UK for five weeks is a good idea. It'll probably be done in a similar way to the bridge replacement on the M56 near Preston Brook.

[Bryn666]

5 weeks for the railway perhaps. You can run buses up the A664 as a fallback, and there's always the slower Metrolink route too.

There's no way the M62 will close except overnight or for a couple of full weekends, however there almost certainly will be 5 weeks of lane closures which will cause utter chaos in themselves.

[KeithW]

It's here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAsnGsDQzCrXtnZCA

And I doubt closing one of the busiest stretches of motorway in the UK for five weeks is a good idea. It'll probably be done in a similar way to the bridge replacement on the M56 near Preston Brook.

Perhaps but while replacing the bridge span should be straight forward enough looking at the bridge condition and abutments the concrete does not seem to have aged well. That said the original poster suggested that the rail line would closed not the M62 so I would expect an overnight closure while the span was demolished and another of the motorway when the new bridge was installed which was what happened for the A14.

[wrinkly]

The rail closure is 2 to 2.5 weeks as stated in the OP. (Two weeks including the weekend at the beginning and a long weekend at the end.) The figure of 5 weeks comes only from Gav's post.

The bridge is post-tensioned which adds some difficulty.

The abutments appear to be in fairly bad condition on Streetview so I assume they are included in the reconstruction.

[SouthWest Philip]

The abutments appear to be in fairly bad condition on Streetview so I assume they are included in the reconstruction.

They could even move them back 12 feet or so just in case any one wants to add a hard shoulder... But then again, perhaps not.

[nowster]

Something of note: the trains containing woodchips/ash for the Drax power station pass this way daily.

[Truvelo]

I wonder if the arched brick bridge next to it will also be replaced or whether it will outlive the concrete structure. Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

[wrinkly]

I wonder if the arched brick bridge next to it will also be replaced or whether it will outlive the concrete structure. Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

Not all Victorian structures lasted well, for example Brunel's timber viaducts, but arched brick or masonry bridges can last for centuries.

[nowster]

Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

There's a bit of survivorship bias too.

[Bryn666]

Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

There's a bit of survivorship bias too.

Iron structures have suffered some catastrophic failures - the stereotype of solid Victorian engineering came about because of these.

A quick look at how many sewers and gas mains are in dire need of replacement puts paid to the myth though. Everything ages out eventually.

[Helvellyn]

Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

There's a bit of survivorship bias too.

A bit, but overall I'd trust it more (with some very, very notable exceptions, the first Tay Bridge being the most well-known). I'd say the difference is that the approach then was largely sound, but when they got it wrong they could get it very, very badly wrong in a way and manner that would be much less likely to happen now.

We all too often hear people grumbling about "our crumbling Victorian network" but it's only crumbling because of poor maintenance (look how much masonry has trees growing out of it!) Replace it with something new and that'll end up crumbling before long too if that's not looked after either.

[Helvellyn]

A quick look at how many sewers and gas mains are in dire need of replacement puts paid to the myth though. Everything ages out eventually.

Eventually, yes (although I'd argue well-built masonry should last indefinitely, as long as it's properly maintained and isn't hit by anything catastrophic that could wreck anything). The question with things like cast iron gas mains is whether the modern replacement will last longer.

I'm frequently surprised by the number of issues some people I know have with new build houses. Other than minor issues (because anything new has teething troubles) I'd have thought NOT having any major problems would be one of the reasons to consider them.

That all said, just precisely how old is this bridge that's being replaced? If it's from the (relatively) early days of such designs then it's perhaps a bit unfair to complain - can't expect people to get it exactly right straight away, whereas a lot of Victorian infrastructure quite a bit was built using well-established, well-known technologies, even if the scale was new. If we're building motorway bridges now that don't stand the test of time better then we've got a problem.

[Phil]

I wonder if the arched brick bridge next to it will also be replaced or whether it will outlive the concrete structure. Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

Thats largely because an arched structure is inherently one of the most stable shapes there is!

Hence why Roman or Medieval structures still exist to this day - the bricks / stones are all in compression and as long as the arch profile stays stable (i.e. the abutments don't shift / subside) then it will never collapse.

Modern bridges, particularity those built in the 60s and 70s use elements which are under tension - and its that fact that they rely on being in tension to provide their strength that is the issue! As the structure ages the ability of the components to stay in tension degrades and unless you have ways of restoring that tension then the whole structure has to be replaced.

[Phil]

Victorian era infrastructure is immeasurably superior to the stuff thrown up in the 60's and 70's.

There's a bit of survivorship bias too.

Iron structures have suffered some catastrophic failures - the stereotype of solid Victorian engineering came about because of these.

A quick look at how many sewers and gas mains are in dire need of replacement puts paid to the myth though. Everything ages out eventually.

The problem with Iron is that it is quite a brittle material and can easily crack / snap if loads are applied in ways that were not accounted for. Cast Iron is particularly prone to fail because of its composition - even back in the 1880s the Board of trad prohibited its use in bridges carrying roads over railways after several which used cast iron girders collapsed.

Steel, being a more flexible material is better able to cope with minor levels of flexing and is also much less likely to have impurities in the end product. On the other had its also tends to rust and corrode more quickly than Iron...

[FleetlinePhil]

Something of note: the trains containing woodchips/ash for the Drax power station pass this way daily.

Indeed. With the reduced number of Trans-Pennine Express services on the Huddersfield route currently, there may be scope to run that way - assuming there is a window in its own long-term engineering work, which I would expect there would be.

Failing that, I guess via the WCML to Farington Junction and through East Lancashire to rejoin the Calder Valley line at Hallroyd Junction, which would make for a slightly busier view out of the back of our house than normal!

The line closure to Manchester will certainly be something I have to bear in mind. I'm sure I can manage not to arrange any social events in that time, but should I need to get to or from Manchester Airport it could be an issue.

[Helvellyn]

Isn't iron a problem if you're going to use it with hydrogen? I vaguely recall something about it making iron more brittle.

[Paul7755]

There’s a planning application referenced in the Rail forums discussion,

Rochdale Council planning website reference 23/00744, might have more details of the works, but I haven’t looked at it yet.