The state of our road network

[fras]

So our roads are now on BBC National News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68598875

However when I have previously seen reports on this subject the DfT also stated the money was sufficient to resurface 5000 miles of road. Clearly this is separate to the National Highways SRN. The mileage figures on the DfT webpages give some idea of the size of the problem : -

In 2021, the total length of roads in Great Britain was estimated to be 247,800 miles.

There were 31,900 miles of major road in Great Britain in 2021, consisting of:

2,300 miles of motorway (99% trunk, 1% principal)
29,500 miles of ‘A’ road (18% trunk, 82% principal)
There were 216,000 miles of minor road in Great Britain in 2021, consisting of:

18,900 miles of ‘B’ road
197,100 miles of ‘C’ and ‘U’ roads

Subtracting the National Highways mileage, shown on their website as 4500 miles gives a mileage of 46,300 miles for council-maintained A and B roads. But there are also the minor roads, many of which are heavily trafficked. There is no breakdown of the C and U roads, but certainly many if not most of the 'C' roads see considerable traffic especially in and around towns and cities.
In his last quarterly report.
Apart from finance that is now totally inadequate, Mr C J Summers, ex-highways engineer at Leicester CC gives some of his thoughts into why roads are deteriorating so quickly nowadays, even after re-surfacing.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160304085 ... nance.com/
Sadly, the site ceased being updated in 2016.

[RichardA35]

The central government controls the grants to local highway authorities.
For pothole repairs and smaller scale resurfacing the cost base is as well understood as it can be by local authorities with a mix of framework contractors and direct labour.
The volume of work that can be undertaken is dependent upon the size of the grant.
The inflationary pressures of the cost of stone, bitumen and labour are running faster than the grant allows for if it is increased at all year on year.
Therefore not enough work is done to keep on top of the maintenance backlog and the assets deteriorate.
Central government denies that it is their problem and lays the blame at the door of local authorities
continue ad infinitum...

[FosseWay]

This junction in (surprise, surprise) Sheffield takes my personal biscuit. It's bad enough in the GSV image, but it's been through two more winters since then. I had to negotiate it at under walking speed in my parents' car, which was already making some strange noises from the front suspension.

[SteveA30]

Your concise summing up applies to most things the Government fund. Railways, dentistry, social care, nurseries, NHS, police, schools, other council funded amenities. They cut council funding, Council Tax increases for less services, Gov say it is a matter for councils. The public feel the squeeze ever more. Food banks take on more claimants. Both parents working in multiple jobs still can't earn enough.

[Herned]

The ultimate answer is we need economic growth. The current government's ludicrous focus on all sorts of other things is a major distraction from that underlying imperative

[RichardA35]

The ultimate answer is we need economic growth. The current government's ludicrous focus on all sorts of other things is a major distraction from that underlying imperative

Deciding to hobble ourselves with a self imposed 4% hit wasn't the best idea...

[Herned]

Deciding to hobble ourselves with a self imposed 4% hit wasn't the best idea...

No, that extra ~£40bn of tax revenue per year would come in handy. But at least we have blue passports

[fras]

In the Cheshire East budget for 2024/25 social services are 70%, so not much left for the rest of the council departments to spend. Budget for roads maintenance is approx £10 million, plus £20 million for capital schemes. It seems to me this should be the other way around, but apparently some of the capital comes from central government, so cannot be spent on maintenance.

[Bryn666]

Maybe not encouraging more and more driving (all those 1.5+ tonne boxes do a lot of damage to surfaces over time) as part of the ridiculous culture war would be a good way to stop a lot of potholes forming.

[ravenbluemoon]

The central government controls the grants to local highway authorities.

...

Central government denies that it is their problem and lays the blame at the door of local authorities

Our Tory MP hppens to also be the leader of the County Council, and wannabe Emperor of the East Midlands Mayor - when anyone asks him why he isn't lobbying his lot at Westminster for more money he gets rather agitated... Nottinghamshire's roads are an absolute tip, rumour has it that they're doing a remake of the moon landings on the B6014 in Skegby...

Subtracting the National Highways mileage, shown on their website as 4500 miles gives a mileage of 46,300 miles for council-maintained A and B roads. But there are also the minor roads, many of which are heavily trafficked. There is no breakdown of the C and U roads, but certainly many if not most of the 'C' roads see considerable traffic especially in and around towns and cities.
In his last quarterly report.

As a point of interest, I've been keeping tabs of the C road mileage that we have on our Wiki - there's about 6,330 miles in Scotland and 2840 in Northern Ireland. About half of England has been convered (ish), which is abut 16,000 miles. A typical "old school" county council like Nottinghamshire, Warwickshire etc. might have upwards of 500 miles of C road to maintain, which as you say, can carry as much traffic as an A or B road.

[Micro The Maniac]

Your concise summing up applies to most things the Government fund. Railways, dentistry, social care, nurseries, NHS, police, schools, other council funded amenities.

But don't worry... (re-)nationalising everything else will be different, honest.

[SteveA30]

I didn't mention nationalisation but it is interesting that you agree the present situation is wrong and indefensible.

[M19]

The obsession over using stone mastic asphalt hasn’t helped the decline either. I’ve seen a lot of stretches of road where stone mastic asphalt surfacing has been replaced more than once, and other stretches with hot rolled asphalt which have been there for over thirty years.

[Owain]

I saw a report today suggesting that the pothole pandemic is the result not only of cuts in funding, but also the increasing use of electric cars.

Really?

I'm aware that EVs are heavier than their ICE equivalents, but I'm struggling to imagine that a Tesla S would weigh as much as a truck or a bus.

... or, for that matter, as much as a hulking great SUV. And there won't be anything like as many of them, either.

[SouthWest Philip]

I saw a report today suggesting that the pothole pandemic is the result not only of cuts in funding, but also the increasing use of electric cars.

Really?

I'm aware that EVs are heavier than their ICE equivalents, but I'm struggling to imagine that a Tesla S would weigh as much as a truck or a bus.

... or, for that matter, as much as a hulking great SUV. And there won't be anything like as many of them, either.

Indeed. And if a road isn't strong enough to accommodate an EV, which really doesn't weigh that much more than an ICE car in the grand scheme of things, then it's going to fall apart at the first lorry.

I suppose incrementally the damage is increasing as all cars, not just EVs, have got heavier over the years.

[ravenbluemoon]

The obsession over using stone mastic asphalt hasn’t helped the decline either. I’ve seen a lot of stretches of road where stone mastic asphalt surfacing has been replaced more than once, and other stretches with hot rolled asphalt which have been there for over thirty years.

I've noticed it doesn't seem to last as long, and it often feels less smooth as well.

One thing this isn't helping with the current situation (at least in Notts) is that they're reacting to the bigger and more dangerous potholes by simply tamping a load of tarmac into the hole. No attempts to tidy the hole up prior to patching, and almost never sealed around the edges. This means the repairs last a month or so before needing doing again, therefore taking up more time that could be spent patching other areas. They filled in a series of quite deep potholes down the bottom of my street. It's not a mega busy bit of road but it serves a good chunk of my estate. The holes were awfully patched about a month ago, and they're starting to reappear already. I wonder if VIA get paid per pothole filled or something.

It's no wonder it feels like progress isn't being made.

[fras]

The obsession over using stone mastic asphalt hasn’t helped the decline either. I’ve seen a lot of stretches of road where stone mastic asphalt surfacing has been replaced more than once, and other stretches with hot rolled asphalt which have been there for over thirty years.

Here is Mr C J Summers on SMA
https://web.archive.org/web/20160301115 ... aypics.htm
There is no doubt that German roads are in far better condition than ours and they all use SMA, (I've driven extensively in Germany and can vouch for that). Of course SMA was developed in Germany, so maybe when it came to England, a few unwritten rules applied when making it did not come across with it.

[Owain]

The obsession over using stone mastic asphalt hasn’t helped the decline either. I’ve seen a lot of stretches of road where stone mastic asphalt surfacing has been replaced more than once, and other stretches with hot rolled asphalt which have been there for over thirty years.

Here is Mr C J Summers on SMA
https://web.archive.org/web/20160301115 ... aypics.htm
There is no doubt that German roads are in far better condition than ours and they all use SMA, (I've driven extensively in Germany and can vouch for that). Of course SMA was developed in Germany, so maybe when it came to England, a few unwritten rules applied when making it did not come across with it.

A better barometer for comparison might be Italy.

Up until a few years ago, I'd have said that Italian roads (the autostrade excepted) were nowhere near as good as ours as far as the surfaces were concerned, on account of the cracks, bumps, potholes, etc.

Now we're on a par (if not worse, in the cities).

[Ruperts Trooper]

I saw a report today suggesting that the pothole pandemic is the result not only of cuts in funding, but also the increasing use of electric cars.

Really?

I'm aware that EVs are heavier than their ICE equivalents, but I'm struggling to imagine that a Tesla S would weigh as much as a truck or a bus.

... or, for that matter, as much as a hulking great SUV. And there won't be anything like as many of them, either.

The fact is that cars have been getting bigger and heavier for decades - physically bigger so more space, more equipment, more safety structures, more emissions equipment, etc - that report is just another attempt to smear EVs.

[trickstat]

I saw a report today suggesting that the pothole pandemic is the result not only of cuts in funding, but also the increasing use of electric cars.

Really?

I'm aware that EVs are heavier than their ICE equivalents, but I'm struggling to imagine that a Tesla S would weigh as much as a truck or a bus.

... or, for that matter, as much as a hulking great SUV. And there won't be anything like as many of them, either.

The fact is that cars have been getting bigger and heavier for decades - physically bigger so more space, more equipment, more safety structures, more emissions equipment, etc - that report is just another attempt to smear EVs.

Hence we have Polos larger than early Golfs, Corsas larger than early Astras etc etc. Recent 'city cars' such as the VW Up and Hyundai i10 are more comparable in terms of things like size and motorway capability with earlier superminis than cars like the Fiat 126 and the original Mini.