One route, Multiple numbers…..

[Summers-lad]

Some of these come from half-baked renumberings. A714 randomly turning into A746 is an extreme example, when the last part of A714 was downgraded to a B road but nothing was done to sort out the anomaly that created.
I'd also prefer A726 to be returned to its original route (now A727) and its extension to Kirkmuirhill restored. Perhaps not all that popular as a through route but it can be useful. The relatively new section between East Kilbride and the M77 would make more sense as an extended A725 (with A726 being the junior partner in the resultant multiplex).
A72/A721 comes to mind too. Going west, A72 should be rerouted over A721 as far as the A70, and then either over A743 to Lanark or continuing over A721 to Carluke. (New number obviously needed for current A72 west of Lanark in this option, but it's hardly a 2-digit standard of road.)
A876 and A977 (and probably A922) should have a single number, probably A977 although it does break the association between M876 and A876. Maybe M977 east of M9?
B9176 (formerly A836) is still part of the main route north to Lairg and Tongue. It was downgraded because of its gradients and old bridges, but with so much less traffic than when it was a shortcut for A9 traffic, it's really the most suitable road to be the south end of A836.
Not quite in the same category, but A698 being the dominant partner in its multiplex with A697 is a real oddity. Why doesn't the primary route have the continuous number?

[Owain]

A40/A449 from Ross to Newport. Granted, now the bridge is free, it seems a little bit quieter than it used to be, but what was for years the main route from the midlands to south wales flipflops from one to the other and back again.

File under “signing multiplexes better”.

Like this?

A rerouted A48 would make sense for the A449 south of Raglan, especially as the northern part of A449 is a less strategic route.

I might be a little bit biased, but I think the A48 has to go to Gloucester!

Certainly, I don't see how sending it up to Raglan would improve anything, because you'd still have two numbers between Ross and Newport. Over the years several Sabristi have made the suggestion that a better solution for the route would be to divert the A49 along the current A4137 to Goodrich, have a shorter multiplex with the A40 to Raglan, and then use the A49 number from there to Newport.

Another route with multiple numbers is the A40-A465 from Raglan to Swansea. I think this should all be A40, with the A48 west of the M4 also taking that number. The old A40 via Brecon could become A471.

The A465 number would then be free to head down the A4042 to Newport, along a more natural continuation of its Hereford-Abergavenny route. North of Hereford it should be swapped with the A4103, and go to Worcester.

[Chris Bertram]

A rerouted A48 would make sense for the A449 south of Raglan, especially as the northern part of A449 is a less strategic route.

I might be a little bit biased, but I think the A48 has to go to Gloucester!

Except that it hasn't always gone that way - originally from Newport it headed NE to Worcester, more or less the route that A449 now takes (with the assistance of A40). Sending it up to Raglan would partly restore it to it's former alignment (allowing for improvements), though I think I agree that the Ross to Worcester stretch can remain as-is, as it's not of great quality and has been by-passed by M50/M5. What's now A48 from Newport to Gloucester was originally A437, a number that is now in exile in west London.

[Glenn A]

The A74(M)/ M74 numbering seems unusual now the A74 has been completely replaced south of Glasgow and nearly everyone calls the road the M74 outside of SABRE, so why not drop the A74(M) number and use M74 to the English border.

[ForestChav]

A40/A449 from Ross to Newport. Granted, now the bridge is free, it seems a little bit quieter than it used to be, but what was for years the main route from the midlands to south wales flipflops from one to the other and back again.

File under “signing multiplexes better”.

A rerouted A48 would make sense for the A449 south of Raglan, especially as the northern part of A449 is a less strategic route.

The current A48 through Chepstow along the Severn used to be A437 with the A48 initially heading up the same corridor as the current A449 and a bit of A40 to Worcester, as some others have said, though this was quite quickly renumbered as A449 through Usk to Raglan then Ross to Worcester with Raglan to Ross becoming the A40.

Ending the A48 on the A40 at Raglan as opposed to at Gloucester would make sense regarding the A449 multiplex, which is a bit silly but seems to have been a decision made when the A48 was renumbered, and it would mean the A449 could then end in Ross which would look more logical, and the route through Chepstow would look less important with a 3 digit number. Though it would perhaps mean more South Wales traffic would go up to Ross and Monmouth (which can get busy) and then would need to use the A40 through the Forest of Dean to Gloucester instead of a relatively clear A48 after going through Chepstow.

It doesn't really need to be a multiplex but the fact it is doesn't really disturb anything.

[Owain]

I might be a little bit biased, but I think the A48 has to go to Gloucester!

Except that it hasn't always gone that way - originally from Newport it headed NE to Worcester, more or less the route that A449 now takes (with the assistance of A40). Sending it up to Raglan would partly restore it to it's former alignment (allowing for improvements), though I think I agree that the Ross to Worcester stretch can remain as-is, as it's not of great quality and has been by-passed by M50/M5. What's now A48 from Newport to Gloucester was originally A437, a number that is now in exile in west London.

The current A48 through Chepstow along the Severn used to be A437 with the A48 initially heading up the same corridor as the current A449 and a bit of A40 to Worcester, as some others have said, though this was quite quickly renumbered as A449 through Usk to Raglan then Ross to Worcester with Raglan to Ross becoming the A40.

Ending the A48 on the A40 at Raglan as opposed to at Gloucester would make sense regarding the A449 multiplex, which is a bit silly but seems to have been a decision made when the A48 was renumbered, and it would mean the A449 could then end in Ross which would look more logical, and the route through Chepstow would look less important with a 3 digit number. Though it would perhaps mean more South Wales traffic would go up to Ross and Monmouth (which can get busy) and then would need to use the A40 through the Forest of Dean to Gloucester instead of a relatively clear A48 after going through Chepstow.

It doesn't really need to be a multiplex but the fact it is doesn't really disturb anything.

When first I picked up a 1922 road atlas that I discovered in the Lancaster University library many years ago, and found out that the A48 had originally gone to Worcester rather than Gloucester, I was shocked! The whole of the Gloucester-Newport route would surely have been more important than the original Worcester-Newport route in the age before the M4, and I'd imagine that it would've been busier too.

Aside from my admission of a personal bias, I don't see any merit in moving it. In its present form, the A48's Gloucester-Chepstow section is significantly better than the A40's Gloucester-Ross route which, once you get beyond Huntley, becomes quite tight and twisty. It wouldn't surprise me if it is significantly busier too. Obviously the A48's Chepstow-Newport section will no longer be anything like as busy as it once was, but it is still a good road, featuring antique delights such as this and this!

Considering that the aim of the thread is to question the concept of 'one route' having 'two numbers', I'd challenge the notion that the A40 has to be continuous from Gloucester to Carmarthen, because it's a very important-sounding number, but one that doesn't form one coherent route between those two points.

The dual-carriageway from Ross to Newport is obviously a major road, and I wonder if it might actually make sense to remove both the A40 and A449 numbers from that stretch. Instead, it could become A440* from the end of the M50 to the M4. As I suggested above, the A40 number could be swapped onto the coherent dualled route from Raglan to Swansea (and the A48 west of the M4) as well. Doing that would give resolve the fact that there are two important arteries in the area - A40-A465 as well as A40/A449 - which currently change number part way through.

*Bryn suggested A440 for the A417-A419 between Gloucester and Swindon, but that could easily become A434, as the original road with that number ran through Tetbury.

[Chris Bertram]

A434 could easily have been used for the former A34 between Chipping Norton and Solihull but instead they went for the lazy, and wrong, A3400.

[Paul7755]

Multiple routes, same number, to switch the question round.
It’s fairly ridiculous that the A34 has such a huge gap in the middle. A34 from Winchester to the M1. Something appropriate to the local area for the other bits way up north…

[M64]

Nobody in this thread has yet mentioned anything with 74 in it ...

Good point - the continuous motorway running from M8 in Glasgow to the M1 at Catthorpe should be named the A74(M) throughout...

You could argue that the A8>M8>(or A77>M77>)M74>A74(M)>M6>A14 is a continuous route (depending on how you view the M77/M8/M74 bit in Glasgow).

The A417/419 should have been the A440 long ago.

My personal view is that this should be the A42 as it deserves a two-digit number. Yes I know the A42 exists but again in my view that should be the M42.

[Chris Bertram]

Nobody in this thread has yet mentioned anything with 74 in it ...

Good point - the continuous motorway running from M8 in Glasgow to the M1 at Catthorpe should be named the A74(M) throughout...

You could argue that the A8>M8>(or A77>M77>)M74>A74(M)>M6>A14 is a continuous route (depending on how you view the M77/M8/M74 bit in Glasgow).

The A417/419 should have been the A440 long ago.

My personal view is that this should be the A42 as it deserves a two-digit number. Yes I know the A42 exists but again in my view that should be the M42.

A42 is out.of zone and should be A453 if remaining non-motorway or M42 if upgraded.

A417/A419 is if course a nonsense but settling upon one or the other number (preferably A419) would do fine.

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

[Big L]

…A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Maybe make the A42 a circular route around the three if that’s a good enough reason to start renumbering roads!

Looking at traffic counts at a randomly chosen approx mid-point on each route: A4103 approx 6k, A42 approx 50k.

[Vierwielen]

A434 could easily have been used for the former A34 between Chipping Norton and Solihull but instead they went for the lazy, and wrong, A3400.

That was probably the cheapest at the time. Expenses incurred a few years diwn the line don't count - they are somebody else's problem.

[Owain]

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Now that's a very interesting idea! You could even continue it along the A465 to Abergavenny and Swansea. There is good cause for a two-digit number along the Heads of the Valleys road.

[Chris Bertram]

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Now that's a very interesting idea! You could even continue it along the A465 to Abergavenny and Swansea. There is good cause for a two-digit number along the Heads of the Valleys road.

That's a pretty good call. It's always struck me as odd that A465 begins (or ends) in, with all due respect to Bromyard, the middle of bleedin' nowhere when it's such an important road through south Wales, but if it was reduced to just the link between Bromyard and Hereford then it wouldn't matter so much.

[Owain]

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Now that's a very interesting idea! You could even continue it along the A465 to Abergavenny and Swansea. There is good cause for a two-digit number along the Heads of the Valleys road.

That's a pretty good call. It's always struck me as odd that A465 begins (or ends) in, with all due respect to Bromyard, the middle of bleedin' nowhere when it's such an important road through south Wales, but if it was reduced to just the link between Bromyard and Hereford then it wouldn't matter so much.

And it's equally odd that the A4103 has run between Hereford and Worcester from the beginning, and isn't the result of some post-M50 downgrading.

[ForestChav]

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Southwell, St Albans and St Davids are looking at this logic intently...

[SouthWest Philip]

And it's equally odd that the A4103 has run between Hereford and Worcester from the beginning, and isn't the result of some post-M50 downgrading.

Originally it was the B4207 but had became the A4103 by 1924. I can only assume that it had initially been concluded that the main route from Worcester to Hereford was to be via the A44 to Bromyard and then the A465? Perhaps the A465 should have been diverted to Worcester instead of Bromyard instead?

[Owain]

And it's equally odd that the A4103 has run between Hereford and Worcester from the beginning, and isn't the result of some post-M50 downgrading.

Originally it was the B4207 but had became the A4103 by 1924. I can only assume that it had initially been concluded that the main route from Worcester to Hereford was to be via the A44 to Bromyard and then the A465? Perhaps the A465 should have been diverted to Worcester instead of Bromyard instead?

... almost from the beginning then. The fact it was a B-road is - if anything - even worse!

I've always wondered why the A465 didn't go to Worcester. It seems like a far more obvious destination than Bromyard.

[Chris Bertram]

A42 might be better used for Worcester to Hereford, replacing A4103, a desperately poor number for a route connecting two cathedral cities (two of the Three Choirs cities in the grand scheme of things).

Southwell, St Albans and St Davids are looking at this logic intently...

Southwell isn't a city.

[dereer]

The road from Armagh to Cavan goes A3 - N12 - N54 - A3 - N54 - A3 - N54. Of course the number changing when crossing the border is understandable, but the change from N12 to N54 doesn't make much sense. Maybe it was a bit more logical when the N12 and N54 met the N2 in different sides of Monaghan town, but nowadays there's an unusual change in number at the Coolshannagh Roundabout where the N12, N54 and N2 all meet.