Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough

[Glenn A]

Plans for its dualling (all the way to Seamer) were announced at the start of the 1990s but they were permanently shelved when labour came to power. The plans had got to quite an advanced state.

No surprises, also the road passed through some staunchly Tory areas, so there was little for Labour to gain from the dualling. However, travelling on the train from York to Scarborough, which was quite busy as it was school holiday time, the S2 sections of the A64 were very congested and needed to be dualled.

[jgharston]

My Idea was that they Duall between York and Malton.

In the first phase, they would Replace the Hopgrove roundabout and dual from there to the next section of dual carriageway with some part GSI to the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section.
in the second phase, they would finish to GSI the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section and dual between that section and the Malton bypass. I'm sure somewhere I made a diagram in Word with my ideas.

https://mdfs.net/maps/Pickering/

[Micro The Maniac]

The problem (as has been mentioned previously in other threads) that you face is that the gap between Crambeck and Malton is within the Howardian Hills Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty National Landscape - and as such, you have to appease the green lobby!

[CallumParry]

This and the A66 Scotch to M6 is a great example of why UK road infrastructure is just chronically bad any main beach resort in Spain, US and France has at least a motorway/expressway standard road leading to it we need less talking/ideas and more building if we are gonna prosper for decades to come, it's insulting from what is supposed to be one of the wealthiest nations on the planet. Both political parties have talked about it for decades now the time has come for no more talk and more building.

[jgharston]

The problem (as has been mentioned previously in other threads) that you face is that the gap between Crambeck and Malton is within the Howardian Hills Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty National Landscape - and as such, you have to appease the green lobby!

Which is one of the reasons I prefer online dualling rather than a greenfield route, as two of the recent consulation options were.

Evenm with that in mind, at the Malton end I can't see any route other than a short section of green field routing to get round the sharp bend and steep incline.

[NICK 647063]

The problem (as has been mentioned previously in other threads) that you face is that the gap between Crambeck and Malton is within the Howardian Hills Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty National Landscape - and as such, you have to appease the green lobby!

Which is one of the reasons I prefer online dualling rather than a greenfield route, as two of the recent consulation options were.

Evenm with that in mind, at the Malton end I can't see any route other than a short section of green field routing to get round the sharp bend and steep incline.

It would have to go offline to get the bends and incline out, to be honest if a new road is built with the environment in mind you can put back more than you take, although a development route the new A6120 ELOR is a good example around east leeds, it’s very well planted, new parks and woodlands along with wildflower meadows to off set it’s carbon footprint…..

The A64 improvement York to Malton is needed to get rid of the congestion, even as I write this the A64 is full of standing traffic between Hopgrove and Barton, getting rid of the standing traffic massively help’s pollution and not to mention the human cost with all the fatalities on the single sections.

[Truvelo]

Actually the 1992 proposal was fully online including those bends.

[Rillington]

Apart from bypassing Malton, and later, Scagglethorpe, no improvements have been carried out between Hop Grove and Seamer, which was where the new road proposed in the early 1990s, would have ended. It makes me wonder just how significantly negative this non-action has been for Scarborough, and possibly Filey, over these decades.

[Lonewolf]

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question, but please bear with me.
Does anyone know exactly when the stretch of dual carriageway by pass around Barton and Whitwell-on-the-Hill was opened ?
In so far as one can tell it appears to be DC on my 1960 OS map. The nearest I could find online for an opening date was "1930s". I assume that was a government subsidised job creation scheme ? One would have thought there were more pressing areas of the country that could have done with DC bypasses back then !
Was the Tadcaster to York section also built at the same time (as all I can find about that is "1930s" as well) ?

On the Barton Hill stretch there is a bridge over the Spital Beck. I once went into the undergrowth to see if I could find a date plate as so often seen on bridges. I did find one, it said 1936. Although why anyone would build a random stretch of dual cariageway in such an out of the way spot so long ago I have no idea.

As far as the rest of the A64 goes it's desperately needed dualling for years. I'm from Malton although I live some way out of town now and I use the A64 all the time. I also know every country lane for miles around to use as escape routes in summer! One quick solution however would be to GSJ Stockton Lane crossroads. I can't count the amount of times I've seen people stop to let someone out or across the A64 there. This is what causes the queues, folks are already going slowly cos of the last person who did it so they touch the brakes to let the next one out not realising they they are contributing to the traffic jam. I keep meaning to take a drone shot there when its busy one day just to show how the queues build up there. I've seen folks stop and let half a dozen cars out there. On a Clearway...ie NO STOPPING grrrrrr.

Oh aye and tractors. Double grrrr

The worst I ever saw it was when they filmed an episode of Countryfile at Castle Howard. I can't quite remember the details now but they screwed up the parking arrangements somehow and created a HUMUNGOUS queue. At the time I was working at a transport company whose yard is where the road from Castle Howard comes out onto the A64. They were queueing back to us and out onto the A64 and all the way back to York. When I took a truck out for some reason or other I saw the end of the queue was all the way back beyond Grimston Bar where the road to Hull is. Needless to say I didn't come back that way!

[Rillington]

The political will seems to be, for the most part, getting there but whether this is enough to get over all the necessary hurdles to get this done any time soon still seems doubtful at this point.

[KeithW]

The political will seems to be, for the most part, getting there but whether this is enough to get over all the necessary hurdles to get this done any time soon still seems doubtful at this point.

I beg to differ, my suspicion is that its perceived as primarily a holiday route to get the denizens of Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield to the holiday resorts between Scarborough and Bridlington. As such they will throw a small amount of money into the pot to show willing.

[Glenn A]

The section from Leeds to the A1(M) isn't particularly busy, so will probably remain S2, but there is a need to upgrade the A64 between York and Scarborough as it is busy with holiday traffic.

[Chris5156]

The political will seems to be, for the most part, getting there but whether this is enough to get over all the necessary hurdles to get this done any time soon still seems doubtful at this point.

I don't know if it is. A year ago it was pushed back to start after 2030, and National Highways took down its project page from their website. With a change of government looking likely I think all bets are off.

[NICK 647063]

The section from Leeds to the A1(M) isn't particularly busy, so will probably remain S2, but there is a need to upgrade the A64 between York and Scarborough as it is busy with holiday traffic.

To be fair it carried around 20k per day between Leeds and the A1(M) prior to covid, being a major commuter route into Leeds these took longer to recover, the last DFT figures for 2022 were showing 16k, we’ve just been involved in some post ELOR traffic surveys, Leeds to A1(M) traffic count close to Fox and Grapes on the A64 was 24k, as traffic settles ELOR and the expansion of the east Leeds Extension is estimated to increase traffic on the A64 by 45%, I don’t really think you can say it isn’t particularly busy given that it’s carrying more traffic than many other roads in line for dualling, A66 and A1 to name a couple.

As for East of York dualling to Malton must be the minimum improvement, not sure how long this can will go on getting kicked down the road.

[wrinkly]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

[Bryn666]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

Given the vast sums spent on the A63 I suspect you're right. However, it would be nice to see some kind of P&R and express bus route into the city from here - you'd have to widen the A64 for the bus lanes needed of course.

[Bomag]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

The additional junctions for LEOR and other local accesses have made it even slower. Coming into Leeds the council would prefer you to use the M1 and then the P&R ride on the East Leeds radial. I used this section of thew A64 recently only due to the works on the A1/M1 and York road tunnel; still not a good route.

[NICK 647063]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

The additional junctions for LEOR and other local accesses have made it even slower. Coming into Leeds the council would prefer you to use the M1 and then the P&R ride on the East Leeds radial. I used this section of thew A64 recently only due to the works on the A1/M1 and York road tunnel; still not a good route.

I use the A64 daily from Leeds city centre to Darlington, I’ve tried the A63/M1 route and it’s slow, getting from the A64 IRR means going along East Street in heavy traffic, then down the A63 which is busy with traffic leaving the endless warehouses, not to mention the M1 which currently has world and usually has accidents or incidents….
I can usually get from Leeds city centre to the A1(M) J44 in 15 minutes, I don’t find the ELOR or other traffic signals have added much more time, it’s actually given extra lanes through on the A64 so chance to pass slower traffic.

Interestingly LCC is proposing to build another P&R on the A64 opposite Langlands Garden centre, with new bus lanes down the A64.

The A64 was detrunked a number of years after the M1 opened as all the through traffic for Manchester and other places was removed, the A64 is still a major road into Leeds but trunk roads aren’t required to go right into city centres, the A6120 was also detrunked but has since seen improvements.

As for the A63 what you needs to remember is the A63 was opened to allow development of the enterprise zone, if it was built as an alternative to the A64 it would be 2 lanes inbound plus bus lanes rather than the ridiculous single lane with 2 plus lane, at least the A64 has 2 lanes both ways plus bus lanes.

[Bomag]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

The additional junctions for LEOR and other local accesses have made it even slower. Coming into Leeds the council would prefer you to use the M1 and then the P&R ride on the East Leeds radial. I used this section of thew A64 recently only due to the works on the A1/M1 and York road tunnel; still not a good route.

I use the A64 daily from Leeds city centre to Darlington, I’ve tried the A63/M1 route and it’s slow, getting from the A64 IRR means going along East Street in heavy traffic, then down the A63 which is busy with traffic leaving the endless warehouses, not to mention the M1 which currently has world and usually has accidents or incidents….
I can usually get from Leeds city centre to the A1(M) J44 in 15 minutes, I don’t find the ELOR or other traffic signals have added much more time, it’s actually given extra lanes through on the A64 so chance to pass slower traffic.

Interestingly LCC is proposing to build another P&R on the A64 opposite Langlands Garden centre, with new bus lanes down the A64.

The A64 was detrunked a number of years after the M1 opened as all the through traffic for Manchester and other places was removed, the A64 is still a major road into Leeds but trunk roads aren’t required to go right into city centres, the A6120 was also detrunked but has since seen improvements.

As for the A63 what you needs to remember is the A63 was opened to allow development of the enterprise zone, if it was built as an alternative to the A64 it would be 2 lanes inbound plus bus lanes rather than the ridiculous single lane with 2 plus lane, at least the A64 has 2 lanes both ways plus bus lanes.

Not certain when you travel but I have never had any holds ups on East Street and ELR going outbound.

ELR was definitely intended to replace the A64 for long distance traffic, while I was on secondment doing bits of A1M1 link we had several meeting about J45. While urban regeneration was a factor the link was intended to avoid the need for any capacity improvements on the A64.

[Rillington]

The political will seems to be, for the most part, getting there but whether this is enough to get over all the necessary hurdles to get this done any time soon still seems doubtful at this point.

I beg to differ, my suspicion is that its perceived as primarily a holiday route to get the denizens of Leeds, Bradford and Wakefield to the holiday resorts between Scarborough and Bridlington. As such they will throw a small amount of money into the pot to show willing.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you say Keith about how this road is seen but I do still think that we might be inching our way to getting this road dualled, at least up to Barton, but it all seems to be taking so long, hence my concern that it still may not happen.