Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough

[Rillington]

I think the section between Leeds and the A1(M) was detrunked ages ago, so it's extremely unlikely to get a major upgrade. The city won't see it as a priority

I would agree as I would imagine that the arrival of the East Leeds Motorway did result in a reduction of usage along this stretch of the A64.

[NICK 647063]

The additional junctions for LEOR and other local accesses have made it even slower. Coming into Leeds the council would prefer you to use the M1 and then the P&R ride on the East Leeds radial. I used this section of thew A64 recently only due to the works on the A1/M1 and York road tunnel; still not a good route.

I use the A64 daily from Leeds city centre to Darlington, I’ve tried the A63/M1 route and it’s slow, getting from the A64 IRR means going along East Street in heavy traffic, then down the A63 which is busy with traffic leaving the endless warehouses, not to mention the M1 which currently has world and usually has accidents or incidents….
I can usually get from Leeds city centre to the A1(M) J44 in 15 minutes, I don’t find the ELOR or other traffic signals have added much more time, it’s actually given extra lanes through on the A64 so chance to pass slower traffic.

Interestingly LCC is proposing to build another P&R on the A64 opposite Langlands Garden centre, with new bus lanes down the A64.

The A64 was detrunked a number of years after the M1 opened as all the through traffic for Manchester and other places was removed, the A64 is still a major road into Leeds but trunk roads aren’t required to go right into city centres, the A6120 was also detrunked but has since seen improvements.

As for the A63 what you needs to remember is the A63 was opened to allow development of the enterprise zone, if it was built as an alternative to the A64 it would be 2 lanes inbound plus bus lanes rather than the ridiculous single lane with 2 plus lane, at least the A64 has 2 lanes both ways plus bus lanes.

Not certain when you travel but I have never had any holds ups on East Street and ELR going outbound.

ELR was definitely intended to replace the A64 for long distance traffic, while I was on secondment doing bits of A1M1 link we had several meeting about J45. While urban regeneration was a factor the link was intended to avoid the need for any capacity improvements on the A64.

The A1/M1 link was intended to relieve the A64 of long distance traffic which it did, prior to it over 6,000 HGV’s had to thunder through Leeds as it was a vital connection, the M1 solved that, I was involved in work on the east leeds link back in 2007 and even the documentation states it won’t relieve the A64, the majority of traffic still uses the A64 including many haulage firms, Chas Long aggregates from up at Richmond daily come to and from west Leeds via the A64, Leeds galvanising are the same, when you run many wagons you need to find not only a decent route time wise but also one that reduces the mileage too, 1 trip in and out of Leeds via the A64 saves 8 miles over the A63/M1 route, add that up over numerous trips daily and it makes sense…..

These days even before the M1 works both the A64 and M1 A63 are badly congested in the morning peak, LCC are already looking at capacity improvements along the A64, as I say with the ELOR that’s put an additional load on the A64 between there and the A1(M), this will only get worse with the thousands of proposed houses, A1(M) J44 is also to be signalised within the next 10 years.

You need to remember Leeds is a large city and not only does the A64 link the city centre but also it’s the signed route from the A1(M) to North Leeds which is vast.

[Rillington]

Thank you for a very thoughtful post Nick.

I think it is fair to say that the majority of vehicles that use the East Leeds Motorway would be using the A64 if the ELM had not been built. However, this only takes out vehicles which do not need to go through Leeds as part of their onward journey. Therefore as you rightly say, it still leaves a lot of HGVs and other commercial traffic to use a road which I would suggest struggles to cope with even this amount of traffic, albeit less than before.

Given that this is the case, is the A64 between Bramham and Whinmoor still fit for purpose or should it still be considered for dualling

[jgharston]

Now that we've got a Mayor (sorry, trying to keep a straight face there), any chance this will become more likely? At the hustings I went to, all the candidates talked about "lobbying government for...., encouraging government to...." Very little "do....".

[Big L]

Now that we've got a Mayor (sorry, trying to keep a straight face there), any chance this will become more likely? At the hustings I went to, all the candidates talked about "lobbying government for...., encouraging government to...." Very little "do....".

I think the mayor of London puts a surcharge on council tax to “do” things. The Birmingham West Midlands mayor hasn’t so far, and relies on “encouraging”.

[Owain]

Now that we've got a Mayor (sorry, trying to keep a straight face there), any chance this will become more likely? At the hustings I went to, all the candidates talked about "lobbying government for...., encouraging government to...." Very little "do....".

I think the mayor of London puts a surcharge on council tax to “do” things. The Birmingham West Midlands mayor hasn’t so far, and relies on “encouraging”.

Either way, how many people with the power to vote for the mayor would support the idea?

The people in Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester who might like the idea of being able to get to Scarborough quicker might have a very different view from the people who actually live near the road and can elect the mayor.

[jgharston]

Either way, how many people with the power to vote for the mayor would support the idea?

The people in Leeds, Sheffield, and Manchester who might like the idea of being able to get to Scarborough quicker might have a very different view from the people who actually live near the road and can elect the mayor.

Well, I'd like to get from Whitby to Sheffield... not quicker, but less-congested-er. Which I often accomplish by going over Egton Moor and the B1363.

And there's a big "constituency" of businesses on the coast who would like potential customers to be able to get there more easily.

[jabbaboy]

Thank you for a very thoughtful post Nick.

I think it is fair to say that the majority of vehicles that use the East Leeds Motorway would be using the A64 if the ELM had not been built. However, this only takes out vehicles which do not need to go through Leeds as part of their onward journey. Therefore as you rightly say, it still leaves a lot of HGVs and other commercial traffic to use a road which I would suggest struggles to cope with even this amount of traffic, albeit less than before.

Given that this is the case, is the A64 between Bramham and Whinmoor still fit for purpose or should it still be considered for dualling

I'm not going to suggest a route but imo the North of Leeds is desperate for a proper bypass which also has a link to Harrogate for people travelling South.

Heading from the North on the A59/A658 has to be one of the most frustrating roads in the country and there's no real sensible route without plowing through the centre of Leeds and using the A64 as mentioned.

Leeds/Bradford must be one of the most difficult airports in the country to visit and that's coming from the North nevermind the South which is even worse.

[Rillington]

Now that we've got a Mayor (sorry, trying to keep a straight face there), any chance this will become more likely? At the hustings I went to, all the candidates talked about "lobbying government for...., encouraging government to...." Very little "do....".

I wqs wondering the very same. Did the Mayor make any comment on dualling this road?

[NICK 647063]

Now that we've got a Mayor (sorry, trying to keep a straight face there), any chance this will become more likely? At the hustings I went to, all the candidates talked about "lobbying government for...., encouraging government to...." Very little "do....".

I wqs wondering the very same. Did the Mayor make any comment on dualling this road?

The Tory candidate made 100% commitment to A64 Dualling, the Labour mayor who won said he supported it but also better public transport, I know the A64 was the first question asked on a TV show prior to the election, the trouble is all focus is on Hopgrove to Barton whereas the scheme need to be Hopgrove to Malton….

It would be madness to leave 3 miles of single carriageway, whereas dualling York to Malton means the Whitby traffic can leave at the A169 and the A64 east should still flow, Hopgrove to Barton just moves the Hopgrove queues to Welburn.

[jabbaboy]

It would be madness to leave 3 miles of single carriageway, whereas dualling York to Malton means the Whitby traffic can leave at the A169 and the A64 east should still flow, Hopgrove to Barton just moves the Hopgrove queues to Welburn.

I'm not too sure it would bar the holidays etc. Isn't the traffic on the A64 caused by the traffic Westbound crossing towards Haxby more so that the lane drop? It seems pretty freeflow, ie very few traffic turning on the other section. There's never traffic or very rarely, at least, heading in the other direction at Malton either.

[jgharston]

At the moment the queues build up rapidly because there's only a few hundred yards from Hopgrove to four lane DC dropping to two lanes SC. Getting the Hopgrove-Barton section done will give space for the traffic to spread out before dropping back down to single at Welburn. Fixing Welburn to Malton can then be done later.

Getting the job done in two sections is better than not getting it done at all in one go.

[jackal]

At the moment the queues build up rapidly because there's only a few hundred yards from Hopgrove to four lane DC dropping to two lanes SC. Getting the Hopgrove-Barton section done will give space for the traffic to spread out before dropping back down to single at Welburn. Fixing Welburn to Malton can then be done later.

Getting the job done in two sections is better than not getting it done at all in one go.

Quite. "All or nothing" in UK roadbuilding generally results in nothing.

[NICK 647063]

It would be madness to leave 3 miles of single carriageway, whereas dualling York to Malton means the Whitby traffic can leave at the A169 and the A64 east should still flow, Hopgrove to Barton just moves the Hopgrove queues to Welburn.

I'm not too sure it would bar the holidays etc. Isn't the traffic on the A64 caused by the traffic Westbound crossing towards Haxby more so that the lane drop? It seems pretty freeflow, ie very few traffic turning on the other section. There's never traffic or very rarely, at least, heading in the other direction at Malton either.

Not really I’ve seen many times traffic queued from past the Haxby turn and nothing pulling out causing delays, it’s always the same an eastbound queue on a morning and the other way westbound queues sometimes at Malton but more regularly at Barton le willows and no junctions westbound cause this, having studied many roads in my career it’s quite common, traffic usually queues a few miles beyond a lane drop and builds up back along the dual carriageway, it’s simply the bottleneck and it takes a few miles to get flowing, the same is true on the A66 westbound after Scotch Corner, people blame cars slowing to let people in and out of Mainsgill but it’s quite often queued there when the farm shop is closed.

[JLRacerZz]

i was going to say as well i have seen it before where it has been slow moving traffic from barton all the way to hopgrove before i think this mostly during the summer months though. To be Honset when the scheme gets built it i will be forced to use hopgrove as i usally avoid the junction by turing right and joining the A64 from Towthrope lane to get to the A1237.