Dualling the remaining parts of the A64 between York and Scarborough has been a long held idea. A plan to upgrade the lot was on the books as part of the 'Roads to Prosperity' plan of the early 1990's
This web link to the local Scarborough newspapers A64 Dualling Campaign provides a lot of info on the 'current state of play'.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/tpi/tp ... bypass.htm
Perhaps, because construction is due to start until 2006 they may see sense and upgrade the scheme to a full dual carriageway. I believe a single carriageway bypass would be dangerous at this point being so near to the already dual standardMalton bypass.
Jim
Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
Moderator: Site Management Team
Living in York, I have to agree. On a sunny bank holiday (when such a thing exists), that road is choc-a-bloc.
The Highways Agency is currently concentrating on the section between York and Tadcaster, which will include closing as many of the 'gaps' in the central reservation as possible, and will probably include a flyover at the deadly Bilbrough Top junction. The annual death rate is at least 2 at that junction alone.
You can read more at http://www.thisisyork.co.uk/york/news/closegaps.html .
The Highways Agency is currently concentrating on the section between York and Tadcaster, which will include closing as many of the 'gaps' in the central reservation as possible, and will probably include a flyover at the deadly Bilbrough Top junction. The annual death rate is at least 2 at that junction alone.
You can read more at http://www.thisisyork.co.uk/york/news/closegaps.html .
I think that the dualling of the A64 (especially Malton - York complete) makes sense, though it is seasonal, much like the M55. Around summer there is often a queue at the eastern end of the Malton bypass where the road returns to single. I've seen this queue back up to the A169 junction some distance away.
What I think is more necessary, though, is the dualling of the A1237. This road is ALWAYS busy! Why on earth the road was built as a single carriageway is beyond me, considering the amount of usage it gets. I'd like to see a complete loop around York with proper free-slowing GSJs on it.
I always think the York case is similar to that of Chester; holiday traffic bypasses it but it gets its own share of tourist traffic, and falls at a junction of major trunk routes.
Stu
What I think is more necessary, though, is the dualling of the A1237. This road is ALWAYS busy! Why on earth the road was built as a single carriageway is beyond me, considering the amount of usage it gets. I'd like to see a complete loop around York with proper free-slowing GSJs on it.
I always think the York case is similar to that of Chester; holiday traffic bypasses it but it gets its own share of tourist traffic, and falls at a junction of major trunk routes.
Stu
Oh yes, a dualling of the A1237 would be great!
It was originally put forward before the road was built, but the land had already been bought and it would put the project back years.
At the very least, GSJs at the A19 and A59 junctions would improve things, even if the road remains single carraigeway. Again, a GSJ plan was put forward when the A19 junction was enlarged to accommodate a direct link with the new Rawcliffe Bar Park & Ride site, but instead they just made the roundabout bigger. It's improved traffic flow slightly, but not by much.
Unfortunately York is almost dead flat, so any new bridges would require considerable earthworks and a lot of disruption. The modifications to the A19 and B1363 roundabouts were bad enough, and few people will forgive the Highways Agency for the A64 Top Lane improvements.
It was originally put forward before the road was built, but the land had already been bought and it would put the project back years.
At the very least, GSJs at the A19 and A59 junctions would improve things, even if the road remains single carraigeway. Again, a GSJ plan was put forward when the A19 junction was enlarged to accommodate a direct link with the new Rawcliffe Bar Park & Ride site, but instead they just made the roundabout bigger. It's improved traffic flow slightly, but not by much.
Unfortunately York is almost dead flat, so any new bridges would require considerable earthworks and a lot of disruption. The modifications to the A19 and B1363 roundabouts were bad enough, and few people will forgive the Highways Agency for the A64 Top Lane improvements.
In the case of the Copmanthorpe roadworks, they were almost unnecessary. Traffic in the village could easily have got on the A64 at the A1237 roundabout. The only benefit I think there is, is the cycle track under the carriageway.
I agree with you that people would not like the distruption that an A1237 upgrade to dual would cause, but I think that the general appreciation would be more like 'ahh well, it'll be better once it's finished' - something that is not so apparent about the Copmanthorpe works.
(Incidentally, I remember my folks having to navigate from the A64 from Malton over to the A59 towards Harrogate whilst trying to avoid York. Beast of a journey before the A1237 was built, but could be done via Haxby and Aldwark 5-pence rickety bridge!)
Stu
Stu
I agree with you that people would not like the distruption that an A1237 upgrade to dual would cause, but I think that the general appreciation would be more like 'ahh well, it'll be better once it's finished' - something that is not so apparent about the Copmanthorpe works.
(Incidentally, I remember my folks having to navigate from the A64 from Malton over to the A59 towards Harrogate whilst trying to avoid York. Beast of a journey before the A1237 was built, but could be done via Haxby and Aldwark 5-pence rickety bridge!)
Stu
Stu
How long have I been saying this? Yes, dual it now!
Stu531: <<Around summer there is often a queue at the eastern end of the Malton bypass where the road returns to single.>>
Summer? Seasonal traffic? 8pm on New Years Day last year, we were sat in a traffic jam that went half way round the Malton Bypass. Summer holiday traffic my arse!
The trouble is that almost every time I've seen the route (and that's often) on the way back from the A1039 roundabout towards York, it's a solid stream of traffic doing 40 behind some distant caravan. Nobody can get by for about 20 miles until the Malton Bypass, where one 50-limited lorry decides to overtake the caravan. That gets back into lane 1 by the halfway junction, and then all hell lets loose as everyone tries to pass everyone else before they run out of dual carriageway. That lasts a couple of miles before it stops again and there's a painful crawl to the end of the dual carriageway in a traffic jam.
After the Malton bypass, there's countdown signs (really!) reading "Dual carriageway - 4 miles ahead" which may as well have the footnote "sorry, we meant to dual all this but we didn't get round to it".
The next dualled bit is Barton Hill, where almost everyone sticks in lane 1 in blind fear of what might happen if they dare to overtake and get stuck in lane 2 at the end of the dualled section - so this bit of dual carriageway is all but useless.
Then it's another 40-crawl back to the roundabout at York, where the traffic evaporates on the York bypass!
Dual it now, for gods sakes - there's nothing scenic, nothing for greenies to save, just slap down some tarmac and get it over with!
<<In the case of the Copmanthorpe roadworks, they were almost unnecessary. Traffic in the village could easily have got on the A64 at the A1237 roundabout.>>
I said that too, but oh god no, Copmanthorpians might have complained or something! No, better to be a nice kind Highways Agency and upgrade the whole junction. Bah!
Chris
Stu531: <<Around summer there is often a queue at the eastern end of the Malton bypass where the road returns to single.>>
Summer? Seasonal traffic? 8pm on New Years Day last year, we were sat in a traffic jam that went half way round the Malton Bypass. Summer holiday traffic my arse!
The trouble is that almost every time I've seen the route (and that's often) on the way back from the A1039 roundabout towards York, it's a solid stream of traffic doing 40 behind some distant caravan. Nobody can get by for about 20 miles until the Malton Bypass, where one 50-limited lorry decides to overtake the caravan. That gets back into lane 1 by the halfway junction, and then all hell lets loose as everyone tries to pass everyone else before they run out of dual carriageway. That lasts a couple of miles before it stops again and there's a painful crawl to the end of the dual carriageway in a traffic jam.
After the Malton bypass, there's countdown signs (really!) reading "Dual carriageway - 4 miles ahead" which may as well have the footnote "sorry, we meant to dual all this but we didn't get round to it".
The next dualled bit is Barton Hill, where almost everyone sticks in lane 1 in blind fear of what might happen if they dare to overtake and get stuck in lane 2 at the end of the dualled section - so this bit of dual carriageway is all but useless.
Then it's another 40-crawl back to the roundabout at York, where the traffic evaporates on the York bypass!
Dual it now, for gods sakes - there's nothing scenic, nothing for greenies to save, just slap down some tarmac and get it over with!
<<In the case of the Copmanthorpe roadworks, they were almost unnecessary. Traffic in the village could easily have got on the A64 at the A1237 roundabout.>>
I said that too, but oh god no, Copmanthorpians might have complained or something! No, better to be a nice kind Highways Agency and upgrade the whole junction. Bah!
Chris
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
A big problem that I've found with the A64 is that because it isn't a special road, anything can use it. the amount of times I've been driving up to York and had a tractor pull out in front of me onto the road....
My solution would be to make the section of the A64 between the end of the M1 and the eastern end of the York northern bypass a motorway. This would also involve providing a parallel single carriageway A64 alongside the new motorway for local access and non-motorway traffic. I would then take the A64 round the northern bypass which I would dual. From the end of my new motorway, I would realign the present A64 as a high quality dual carriageway with junctions separated by grade all the way to Scarborough.
At the very least the road could do with dualling and separate routes for tractors....
Chris.
My solution would be to make the section of the A64 between the end of the M1 and the eastern end of the York northern bypass a motorway. This would also involve providing a parallel single carriageway A64 alongside the new motorway for local access and non-motorway traffic. I would then take the A64 round the northern bypass which I would dual. From the end of my new motorway, I would realign the present A64 as a high quality dual carriageway with junctions separated by grade all the way to Scarborough.
At the very least the road could do with dualling and separate routes for tractors....
Chris.
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That's not a bad idea, actually. Certainly a few bridleways along the side wouldn't come amiss.
The Compmathorpe junction was built as it is because the York - Leeds buses go through Copmathorpe, and it was too difficult for them to turn around in the village if coming in from the A1237 junction, or something. Even though the bus company concerned initially complained that the bridge under the A64 wasn't wide enough for 2 buses to pass similtaneously. That was soon disproved.
The Compmathorpe junction was built as it is because the York - Leeds buses go through Copmathorpe, and it was too difficult for them to turn around in the village if coming in from the A1237 junction, or something. Even though the bus company concerned initially complained that the bridge under the A64 wasn't wide enough for 2 buses to pass similtaneously. That was soon disproved.
York City Council aren't exactly the most pro-car council in the country either.
The whole area to the east of York wants looking at properly. Much as the A64 needs upgrading, the A1079 is a b*tch of a road - ever tried rush hour from Pocklington to York City Centre? The A1079/A64 roundabout causes huge tailbacks westbound. So I'd like to see that upgraded too. Its amazing that a city the size of Hull doesn't have a decent dual to take traffic to the north.
Stu
The whole area to the east of York wants looking at properly. Much as the A64 needs upgrading, the A1079 is a b*tch of a road - ever tried rush hour from Pocklington to York City Centre? The A1079/A64 roundabout causes huge tailbacks westbound. So I'd like to see that upgraded too. Its amazing that a city the size of Hull doesn't have a decent dual to take traffic to the north.
Stu
<<The A1079/A64 roundabout causes huge tailbacks westbound. So I'd like to see that upgraded too. Its amazing that a city the size of Hull doesn't have a decent dual to take traffic to the north.>>
That's true - but I drove that route when I was up there the other week... I thought it was actually fairly good - light traffic (compared with down here in the south), plenty of overtaking possibilities on the straights, a couple of nice dualled bits. It was really an enjoyable country drive
) Although, yeah... I take your point about the junction being appaling!
Chris.
That's true - but I drove that route when I was up there the other week... I thought it was actually fairly good - light traffic (compared with down here in the south), plenty of overtaking possibilities on the straights, a couple of nice dualled bits. It was really an enjoyable country drive
) Although, yeah... I take your point about the junction being appaling!Chris.
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The A59 and A591 both have Countdown signs to Dual Carriageway bits. They're becoming the norm now.
On Topic: I've only been on the A64 once, and I remember a set of lights immediately after a sharp bend that caused snarl ups, maybe some work would be needed there (unless that's Copmanthorpe and I'm confused)...
On Topic: I've only been on the A64 once, and I remember a set of lights immediately after a sharp bend that caused snarl ups, maybe some work would be needed there (unless that's Copmanthorpe and I'm confused)...
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Chris: <<That's true - but I drove that route when I was up there the other week... I thought it was actually fairly good - >>
It's not too bad during off-peak hours, but you get caught out (a) by tractors, in a similar way to the A64, and (b) it's a pain at rush hour at either end. Again, like the A64 there are a couple of dual stretches but the whole thing needs upgrading.
Bryn:<<I've only been on the A64 once, and I remember a set of lights immediately after a sharp bend that caused snarl ups, maybe some work would be needed there (unless that's Copmanthorpe and I'm confused)...>>
I think it probably will be Copmanthorpe if it's a dual section, although there are lights in a village between Malton and Scarborough (is this Rillington?)
Stu
It's not too bad during off-peak hours, but you get caught out (a) by tractors, in a similar way to the A64, and (b) it's a pain at rush hour at either end. Again, like the A64 there are a couple of dual stretches but the whole thing needs upgrading.
Bryn:<<I've only been on the A64 once, and I remember a set of lights immediately after a sharp bend that caused snarl ups, maybe some work would be needed there (unless that's Copmanthorpe and I'm confused)...>>
I think it probably will be Copmanthorpe if it's a dual section, although there are lights in a village between Malton and Scarborough (is this Rillington?)
Stu
Well how about not only the A64 to the east of York, but between Leeds Ring Rd and the A1? OK I've got my own self interests here as its one of my routes to work, but it chugs at 30-40mph all the way to Leeds in a morning; if you hit a tractor (at rush hour - thanks) you're stuffed!
It's the first trunk road from the north; the first road that HGVs are allowed to use from the North East, so it shouldn't it be able to cope with it?
So I say, dual it from Leeds all the way to Scarborough!
Stu
It's the first trunk road from the north; the first road that HGVs are allowed to use from the North East, so it shouldn't it be able to cope with it?
So I say, dual it from Leeds all the way to Scarborough!
Stu
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Justin Smith
- Member
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- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 23:16
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question, but please bear with me.
Does anyone know exactly when the stretch of dual carriageway by pass around Barton and Whitwell-on-the-Hill was opened ?
In so far as one can tell it appears to be DC on my 1960 OS map. The nearest I could find online for an opening date was "1930s". I assume that was a government subsidised job creation scheme ? One would have thought there were more pressing areas of the country that could have done with DC bypasses back then !
Was the Tadcaster to York section also built at the same time (as all I can find about that is "1930s" as well) ?
Does anyone know exactly when the stretch of dual carriageway by pass around Barton and Whitwell-on-the-Hill was opened ?
In so far as one can tell it appears to be DC on my 1960 OS map. The nearest I could find online for an opening date was "1930s". I assume that was a government subsidised job creation scheme ? One would have thought there were more pressing areas of the country that could have done with DC bypasses back then !
Was the Tadcaster to York section also built at the same time (as all I can find about that is "1930s" as well) ?
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NICK 647063
- Member
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- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
- Location: Leeds
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
Justin Smith wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 10:07 Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question, but please bear with me.
Does anyone know exactly when the stretch of dual carriageway by pass around Barton and Whitwell-on-the-Hill was opened ?
In so far as one can tell it appears to be DC on my 1960 OS map. The nearest I could find online for an opening date was "1930s". I assume that was a government subsidised job creation scheme ? One would have thought there were more pressing areas of the country that could have done with DC bypasses back then !
Was the Tadcaster to York section also built at the same time (as all I can find about that is "1930s" as well) ?
I agree at the time it was probably a bit unusual given that you had Tadcaster, York and Malton all needing bypasses, I believe it replaced a level crossing at Barton Hill and made the climb up Whitwell Hill a bit better with the DC, I’m sure I read somewhere it was built by prisoners but honestly cannot confirm….
On another note this thread is 20 years old and the A64 is still awaiting more dualling!
One thing I will say about the mid section dual carriageway between York and Malton at Barton Hill is it’s probably saved a few lives, while the A64 has regular fatalities on the single sections I can only imagine it would be worse without the Barton Dual Carriageway, if you were leaving Malton and stuck behind something most think I’ll just wait 3 miles until the dual carriageway, if it was simply 15 miles of single carriageway to York I can bet most would try a dodgy overtake with impatience……
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
My Idea was that they Duall between York and Malton.
In the first phase, they would Replace the Hopgrove roundabout and dual from there to the next section of dual carriageway with some part GSI to the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section.
in the second phase, they would finish to GSI the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section and dual between that section and the Malton bypass. I'm sure somewhere I made a diagram in Word with my ideas.
In the first phase, they would Replace the Hopgrove roundabout and dual from there to the next section of dual carriageway with some part GSI to the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section.
in the second phase, they would finish to GSI the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section and dual between that section and the Malton bypass. I'm sure somewhere I made a diagram in Word with my ideas.
Last edited by OliverH on Mon Jan 01, 2024 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
That was mooted in RIS 1 as I recall but National Highways just tinkered with the Hopgrove roundabout.OliverH wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:25 My Idea was that they Duall between York and Malton.
In the first phase, they would Replace the Hopgrove roundabout and dual from there to the next section of dual carriageway with some part GSI to the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section.
in the second phase, they would finish to GSI the Whitwell-on-the-Hill section and dual between that section and the Malton bypass. I'm sure somewhere I made a diagram in Word with my ideas.
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Rillington
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- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
Plans for its dualling (all the way to Seamer) were announced at the start of the 1990s but they were permanently shelved when labour came to power. The plans had got to quite an advanced state.
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Rillington
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- Posts: 1976
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- Location: Manchester
Re: Dualling the A64 York to Scarborough
This has to be the longest ever gap between postings within an individual topic!NICK 647063 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2023 11:10 I agree at the time it was probably a bit unusual given that you had Tadcaster, York and Malton all needing bypasses, I believe it replaced a level crossing at Barton Hill and made the climb up Whitwell Hill a bit better with the DC, I’m sure I read somewhere it was built by prisoners but honestly cannot confirm….
On another note this thread is 20 years old and the A64 is still awaiting more dualling!
One thing I will say about the mid section dual carriageway between York and Malton at Barton Hill is it’s probably saved a few lives, while the A64 has regular fatalities on the single sections I can only imagine it would be worse without the Barton Dual Carriageway, if you were leaving Malton and stuck behind something most think I’ll just wait 3 miles until the dual carriageway, if it was simply 15 miles of single carriageway to York I can bet most would try a dodgy overtake with impatience……
Agreed. It's a bit of an anomaly to dual just this section and nothing else.
The Tadcaster bypass, and the creation of the southern York bypass, followed at a later time so maybe it was done to reduce issues with slow moving vehicles having difficulties getting to the hills.