Catenary motorway lighting

[Karl Bough]

Although this has already been covered in the Top 10 Roads section (gasp, not the General section!), I wanted to revive the subject as I find this type of lightingto be interesting.I was wondering if anyonecould get any photos of the catenary lighting found on some motorways, including the southern section of the M1, the western section of the M25 and the southern end of the M5. Other lighting types andcommentary would be very greatly appreciated.

[Truvelo]

I've attached a picture of the southern section of the M1. This is the best picture I have of catenary lighting.
catenary.jpg

[PeterA5145]

<<I've attached a picture of the southern section of the M1. This is the best picture I have of catenary lighting.>>

I must say to me this looks cheap and cluttered - a bit reminiscent of old-style tram and trolleybus wires.

I like the elegant, minimalist 1960s lamp standards. I never used to be a great fan of modernist architecture, but when you compare it to some of the fussy, self-conscious designs they come up with nowadays it has much to be said for it.

In Stockport, a lot of slim, attractive 1960s lamp standards on the A6 have recently been replaced by clumsy, overblown green efforts from which they can hang advertising banners. Not in my view a step forward.

And I love some of the classic 60s architecture of the early motorway network, such as the "Mad Bridge" on the M6 referred to in an earlier thread.

Connoisseurs of lighting may be interested in the high-level lamp standards with five powerful lights in a ring at the top used to illuminate much of the Runcorn Expressway system. In one location, they also illuminate a 30-limit road that runs underneath and alongside - but, given that there aren't street lights at 185-metre intervals, is the 30 limit enforceable on that road? A good one for the pedants.

Regards,

Peter

[Karl Bough]

Despite someone else's comment, I personally think it is a very graceful and efficient method of lighting, although I suppose I am biased as I am a fan of electric railways (hence the catenary connection). Is the photograph you've taken looking south at the M25 junction (M1 J6A, M25 J21), with the sliproad from the westbound M25 for the northbound M1 coming over in the background, to join the M1 at the right of the picture, along with the sliproad from the eastbound M25 that joins the northbound M1 (if you can follow all of that!)? Anyway, many thanks for the picture, as it is one of myfavourite features of UK roads.

[Truvelo]

<<<Is the photograph you've taken looking south at the M25 junction......>>>
Yes it is. You may recognise the picture from my recent quiz.
I've attached apicture of the M3/M25 junction but the lamps aren't so clearly visible.
cate2.jpg

[ManomayLR]

18 years on and almost all catenary installations have been removed. M1 J5-6 was hanging on for dear life, but has now been switched off. Not long now until the columns will be removed. It's not going to make it

[RichardA626]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere memories of seeing them going to and from Blackpool on the M6.

[Bryn666]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere memories of seeing them going to and from Blackpool on the M6.

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

[ManomayLR]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere memories of seeing them going to and from Blackpool on the M6.

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

I presume back in the day long stretches of rural motorway were lit with LPS, sometimes catenary, these stretches now don’t need lighting.

Personally I think all motorways should be continuously lit at night, ideally with LED, but I don’t know the safety aspect.

[Enceladus]

I’ve only seen the catenary lighting setups on the British and some French motorways, and I’ve never been much of a fan of them. Like Peter A5145, I find them rather cluttered and “messy.”

My favourite type of lighting for motorways and DCs are the classic late 1960s era lamp standards with the T shape - they are elegant, modern and always symbolised late 20th Century modernity to me, along with such things as metal electricity pylons, power stations, airports and shopping centres.

In Ireland, the T shape central median lamp standards have made a comeback in the past 15 years. They line the N7 dual carriageway from the M50 out to Rathcoole (replacing an earlier incarnation of T shape lights dating from presumably when the DC was originally built in the late 1960s.

[ManomayLR]

I’ve only seen the catenary lighting setups on the British and some French motorways, and I’ve never been much of a fan of them. Like Peter A5145, I find them rather cluttered and “messy.”

My favourite type of lighting for motorways and DCs are the classic late 1960s era lamp standards with the T shape - they are elegant, modern and always symbolised late 20th Century modernity to me, along with such things as metal electricity pylons, power stations, airports and shopping centres.

In Ireland, the T shape central median lamp standards have made a comeback in the past 15 years. They line the N7 dual carriageway from the M50 out to Rathcoole (replacing an earlier incarnation of T shape lights dating from presumably when the DC was originally built in the late 1960s.

Some of the T-shaped central reserve streetlights are somewhere between T-shape and Y-shape.

[RichardA626]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere memories of seeing them going to and from Blackpool on the M6.

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

Did the M61 or M63 have any? I'm not sure if my family would have used the M62.

[Bryn666]

I think I've mentioned elsewhere memories of seeing them going to and from Blackpool on the M6.

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

Did the M61 or M63 have any? I'm not sure if my family would have used the M62.

The then M62 between Eccles and Worsley had them as did the first bit of the M61 through the braided Interchange.

The rest of the NW has always used conventional lighting.

[ManomayLR]

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

Did the M61 or M63 have any? I'm not sure if my family would have used the M62.

The then M62 between Eccles and Worsley had them as did the first bit of the M61 through the braided Interchange.

The rest of the NW has always used conventional lighting.

Why was catenary lighting installed in the first place instead of conventional lighting? And why is it being removed today and we don’t just see catenary LEDs?

[djw1981]

Personally I think all motorways should be continuously lit at night, ideally with LED, but I don’t know the safety aspect.

Interested to know your reasoning. Apart from around major intersections, and the section through Glasgow, most motorways I regularly drive (Scotland and M6 north of Lancaster) are largely unlit and I don't think it makes the rural areas more dangerous. The M74, M8 and M9 in particular would be intrusive on the environment if fully lit.

[RichardA626]

There were never any on the M6 or M55 - your memory must have the M62 mixed up. The M62 was catenary lighting from J12 to J15, and the A666 spur had them.

The M6 was unlit at Preston until about 1988 or so, which seemed a bit short sighted given it was all ripped out 5 years later for the widening.

Did the M61 or M63 have any? I'm not sure if my family would have used the M62.

The then M62 between Eccles and Worsley had them as did the first bit of the M61 through the braided Interchange.

The rest of the NW has always used conventional lighting.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Bryn666]

Did the M61 or M63 have any? I'm not sure if my family would have used the M62.

The then M62 between Eccles and Worsley had them as did the first bit of the M61 through the braided Interchange.

The rest of the NW has always used conventional lighting.

Why was catenary lighting installed in the first place instead of conventional lighting? And why is it being removed today and we don’t just see catenary LEDs?

Now that I don't know. I suspect given it was 1970 and the technology meant you could have long lighting stretches between support columns gave it an advantage over conventional.

The M62 east of J15 was unlit well until into the 1980s. The M63 to the south of Eccles Interchange was lit in the mid 1970s.

[ManomayLR]

The then M62 between Eccles and Worsley had them as did the first bit of the M61 through the braided Interchange.

The rest of the NW has always used conventional lighting.

Why was catenary lighting installed in the first place instead of conventional lighting? And why is it being removed today and we don’t just see catenary LEDs?

Now that I don't know. I suspect given it was 1970 and the technology meant you could have long lighting stretches between support columns gave it an advantage over conventional.

If you look at the 80s and 90s, many rural stretches were fully lit that are now unlit.

Why is lighting being removed?

[Bryn666]

Why was catenary lighting installed in the first place instead of conventional lighting? And why is it being removed today and we don’t just see catenary LEDs?

Now that I don't know. I suspect given it was 1970 and the technology meant you could have long lighting stretches between support columns gave it an advantage over conventional.

If you look at the 80s and 90s, many rural stretches were fully lit that are now unlit.

Why is lighting being removed?

There used to be fogs and smogs in many low-lying areas due to the effects of industrial processes. Fatal pile-ups were a depressing regularity in poor visibility and SOX lighting helped to slightly reduce the hazards somewhat. Lancashire's engineers abused the rules on lighting hazardous stretches (saying the gaps between the hazard areas was short, so why not fill it in) to create a continuously lit section from J20 to 32, which was completed around 1987-88.

Similar works were done on the M62 from J15-25, but the weather conditions destroyed several of the original columns. They literally snapped in the wind.

The M1 had several pile-ups in the mid to late 60s which is also why we have the 70 mph speed limit. A particularly nasty pile-up at Luton in 1971 killed 9 people and this was one of the final drivers for the replacement of the Motorwarn system with MS1s nationally.

Hansard: "As a first step we need to bring the warning light system up to the standard of that on the M4 between Chiswick and London Airport. Second, overhead lighting should be introduced on the whole Bedfordshire section and onwards into London. I read that the estimated cost of this would be £15,000 per mile but that when it was installed on the M4 night and bad weather accidents were reduced by about 50 per cent."

[ManomayLR]

Now that I don't know. I suspect given it was 1970 and the technology meant you could have long lighting stretches between support columns gave it an advantage over conventional.

If you look at the 80s and 90s, many rural stretches were fully lit that are now unlit.

Why is lighting being removed?

There used to be fogs and smogs in many low-lying areas due to the effects of industrial processes. Fatal pile-ups were a depressing regularity in poor visibility and SOX lighting helped to slightly reduce the hazards somewhat. Lancashire's engineers abused the rules on lighting hazardous stretches (saying the gaps between the hazard areas was short, so why not fill it in) to create a continuously lit section from J20 to 32, which was completed around 1987-88.

Similar works were done on the M62 from J15-25, but the weather conditions destroyed several of the original columns. They literally snapped in the wind.

The M1 had several pile-ups in the mid to late 60s which is also why we have the 70 mph speed limit. A particularly nasty pile-up at Luton in 1971 killed 9 people and this was one of the final drivers for the replacement of the Motorwarn system with MS1s nationally.

Hansard: "As a first step we need to bring the warning light system up to the standard of that on the M4 between Chiswick and London Airport. Second, overhead lighting should be introduced on the whole Bedfordshire section and onwards into London. I read that the estimated cost of this would be £15,000 per mile but that when it was installed on the M4 night and bad weather accidents were reduced by about 50 per cent."

If, let’s say, the entire M1 was to get continuous LED lighting, what would the benefits and drawbacks be?