Bad junctions

Slim · Post by **Slim** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 13:08

Why oh why does this country go to the effort of building fairly decent roads that are connected by totally inadequate junctions?!

In addition to Chris's list on his site I have thefollowing additions:

1) M25 junction 2 / A2 / Dartford
Totally inadequate capacity for such a major interchange of two major roads but this one also serves as a junction for Dartford town. The white lining is awful leading to bad lane control and accidents. If one car breaks down on the roundabout it leads to hours of gridlock in all 4 directions of the M25 and A2. Happily this will be improved in 2005 due to the TPI scheme to improve the junction.

2) A406 / A1 junction
Here you have a vastly improved A406 with grade separation throughout most of it's length meeting and multiplexing the busy A1 radial at a traffic light controlled 'at grade' junction.This situation is clearly a joke and I avoid the North Circular at all costs as I've been caught here a few time outside the rush hour for 45 minutes at a time. The days of investment in the A406 are sadly suspended until such time that Ken Livingstone get run over by one of his own buses.

Guvva_303 · Post by **Guvva_303** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 23:56

I thoughtof a sub-category of 'bad junctions', that is those where roundabouts are built with provision for fly-overs, but they are not actually built with them. Even the 'main' route through the junction will have flared approaches, and the roundabout will posses the necessary geometric standards, but yet flyovers/underpasses are not built.
Traffic flows at the time of design may not have warranted the extra road capacity, but if the junction was designed for expansion, my point is that the government would have found it much easier to push through the flyover as part of a whole route, rather than a separate scheme (such as the A47 Hardwick flyover/A14 Rookery Crossroads). Therefore there are now a number of locations on the trunk network where such a problem exists, and immediate examples that come to mind are:
A303/A37/A372 Podmore Roundabout
A30 Innis Downs, Bodmin (although due for upgrage soon)
A46/A6097 Bingham
There are many more I'm sure, let's have your thoughts.
Toby

mistral · Post by **mistral** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 11:24

Things are happening at what is probably the worst of the lot!!!
http://www.m1junction19.org.uk/
Has anyone got any 'on the ground' details?
Cheers,
Graham.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 22:07

Graham: <<Has anyone got any 'on the ground' details?>>

Well, I was there last weekend, does that count?

The state of play then was that the two roundabouts have been changed to one sort of dumb-bell shaped affair that can best be understood as if you miss your exit, you know have to do a complete loop of BOTH roundabouts now. In other words, to go from the A14 to Swinford, instead of just turning right at the roundabout,you've got to go under the M1, round the other roundabout, back under the M1 and finally off up towards Swinford.

Steven

Guvva_303 · Post by **Guvva_303** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 00:04

With reference to the link to www.m1junction19.org.uk, the current works at J19 are only an intermediate solution to what is a massive congestion and safety problem that should never been allowed to exist in the first place.
I share the opinion that the current junction is totally inadequate for the intersection of 3 major routes, and the current dumb bell improvement should provide a small improvement, however while the proposed all-movement junction with associated link roads, would be fantastic, it should be recognised that it has NOT received government approval yet and while there is a good chance of this happening, I strongly suspect that it will require a public enquiry. The earliest that the improvements would be completed by is 2009: the situation is hopeless.

c2R · Post by **c2R** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 02:04

<<I strongly suspect that it will require a public enquiry>>
A public enquiry? that seems rediculous - even completely rebuilding the junction from scratch isn't really a major issue - it's not like acres of land will be needed or anything. Surely they can see that any date as late as 2009 simply isn't acceptible... I'm just appaled already!
Chris.

M4Simon · Post by **M4Simon** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 22:20

c2R: <<A public enquiry? that seems rediculous - even completely rebuilding the junction from scratch isn't really a major issue - it's not like acres of land will be needed or anything. Surely they can see that any date as late as 2009 simply isn't acceptible... I'm just appaled already!>>
A Public Inquiry can be forced when the Orders for a scheme are challenged during the notice period, if the challenge is made by a statutory objector -e.g an affectedland owner - therefore the size of a scheme won't affect whether a PI is needed.
Every now and then Government talks about speeding up the process, but so far nothing has happened - it's democracy, you know! Everyone is entitled to have their say. They changed the rules for building light rail systems so that an Act of Parliament is no longer required - instead you make a Transport and Works Act application. In reality it has done little to change the timescale - it still needs a ministerial decision.
7years is not uncommon to take a scheme to fruition - I went to the retirement party for a colleague whose first job 40 years earlier had been the A41 Kings Langley and Berkhamsted bypass - it opened as he retired.
Simon