Does anyone know where I can find a list of the old Euroroutes and their numbers, before the grid system was introduced?
I know the E4 and E6 in Scandinavia are vestiges of the old system, and from what I remember of the system beforehand, out of the single digit Euroroutes there were two running parallel NW-SE across Europe (Channel Ports to Italy - did the old Euroroutes include British roads?). As well as two parallel SW-NE (Spain to Scandinavia). I remember one from Calais (or another Channel Port) to Istanbul (and further?), and one from Hook of Holland to Moscow (or further?)
There were 100 or so routes in the old system, anyone remember any more of the system?
Old Euroroute numbers?
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I don't know about a list of old Euroroute numbers but I do have in my possession the following which may give some help
1. 1961 Esso map of West & Central Europe
2. 1969 Europa Touring Guide & Road Atlas
3. 1970 Mobile Euroguide Road Atlas
4. 1974 AA Euromap
which all show the old Euroroues and numbers.
From having a look at these I can tell you some more about the routes that Keeno mentioned in the proceeding message.
The UK had the following Eororoutes:
1. London was main hub of the old network starting several important Euroroutes, these being the E1, E2, E5 & E8. These ran as follows
E1 SW fr London down the A3 (later M3) to Southampton & acroos to Le Havre
E2 & E5 multiplexed SE down the A20/A20(m)/M20 to Dover & over to Calais
E8 ran NE up the A12 to Hawich & the on to Hoek van Holland
2. The UK also had its own network with the
E31 going NW from London up the M1 to Doncaster A1 to Scotch Corner A66 to Carlisle and finaly A74 to Glasgow
E32 branched offthe E31 (A74) at Crawford following the A73 & A702 to Edinburgh
E33 left the E31(M1) and went up the M6 to Liverpool
E34 ran from the E33/M6 at Birmingham up the A5 to Holyhead where it terminated
Of the other Eroute across Europe Keeno recalls I can advise on too.The 2 running NW to SE from the Channel to Italy are:
E1 London - Southampton - Le Havre - Paris - Lyon - Nice - Genova - Roma - Napoli - Palermo
E2 ran East of E1 starting London - Dover - Calais - Dijon - Geneva - Milano - Bologna and down the East Italian cost to end at Brindisi
The 2 SW to NE routes Spain to Scandinavia were the E3 & E4, with both starting in sunny warm Lisbon with E3 running west of E4
E3 ran Lisbon via San Sebastian - Bordeaux - Paris - Lille - Antwerp - Hannover - Hamburg - Frederikshavn - across the sea to Goteborg to end in Stockholm
E4 runnig a more easterly course from Lisbon to Stockolm via Madrid - Barcelona - Geneva - Basel - Frakfurt - Hannover - Hamburg (multiplexing the E3 ) - Lubeck - Copenhagen - Stockholm to meet the E3 again. However the E4 did not finish here. It carried on up to the to of the Baltic Sea and back down Finland to end at Helsinki
London to Istanbul was the E5 via Calais- Brussels- Koln- Vienna- Belgrade & Thessaloniki
London to what I belive to be Moscow was E8 via Hoek van Holland- Hannover- Berlin & Warsaw. Whether this roue got to Moscow from the info I have I cant say but it certainly got to Brest on the Polish & Belarus (former Soviet border)
This may not be a list but hope it helps you. Would it be an idea to do an old Eurorote list? Also if anyone has any other queries on this subject, drop us a note on this forum and I will see what I can do
1. 1961 Esso map of West & Central Europe
2. 1969 Europa Touring Guide & Road Atlas
3. 1970 Mobile Euroguide Road Atlas
4. 1974 AA Euromap
which all show the old Euroroues and numbers.
From having a look at these I can tell you some more about the routes that Keeno mentioned in the proceeding message.
The UK had the following Eororoutes:
1. London was main hub of the old network starting several important Euroroutes, these being the E1, E2, E5 & E8. These ran as follows
E1 SW fr London down the A3 (later M3) to Southampton & acroos to Le Havre
E2 & E5 multiplexed SE down the A20/A20(m)/M20 to Dover & over to Calais
E8 ran NE up the A12 to Hawich & the on to Hoek van Holland
2. The UK also had its own network with the
E31 going NW from London up the M1 to Doncaster A1 to Scotch Corner A66 to Carlisle and finaly A74 to Glasgow
E32 branched offthe E31 (A74) at Crawford following the A73 & A702 to Edinburgh
E33 left the E31(M1) and went up the M6 to Liverpool
E34 ran from the E33/M6 at Birmingham up the A5 to Holyhead where it terminated
Of the other Eroute across Europe Keeno recalls I can advise on too.The 2 running NW to SE from the Channel to Italy are:
E1 London - Southampton - Le Havre - Paris - Lyon - Nice - Genova - Roma - Napoli - Palermo
E2 ran East of E1 starting London - Dover - Calais - Dijon - Geneva - Milano - Bologna and down the East Italian cost to end at Brindisi
The 2 SW to NE routes Spain to Scandinavia were the E3 & E4, with both starting in sunny warm Lisbon with E3 running west of E4
E3 ran Lisbon via San Sebastian - Bordeaux - Paris - Lille - Antwerp - Hannover - Hamburg - Frederikshavn - across the sea to Goteborg to end in Stockholm
E4 runnig a more easterly course from Lisbon to Stockolm via Madrid - Barcelona - Geneva - Basel - Frakfurt - Hannover - Hamburg (multiplexing the E3 ) - Lubeck - Copenhagen - Stockholm to meet the E3 again. However the E4 did not finish here. It carried on up to the to of the Baltic Sea and back down Finland to end at Helsinki
London to Istanbul was the E5 via Calais- Brussels- Koln- Vienna- Belgrade & Thessaloniki
London to what I belive to be Moscow was E8 via Hoek van Holland- Hannover- Berlin & Warsaw. Whether this roue got to Moscow from the info I have I cant say but it certainly got to Brest on the Polish & Belarus (former Soviet border)
This may not be a list but hope it helps you. Would it be an idea to do an old Eurorote list? Also if anyone has any other queries on this subject, drop us a note on this forum and I will see what I can do
2. The UK also had its own network with the
E31 going NW from London up the M1 to Doncaster A1 to Scotch Corner A66 to Carlisle and finaly A74 to Glasgow
Proof of this from the Anderson Report:
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Very interesting and thanks for the info Andy. The UK network of Euroroutes seemed a bit sparse and looked like it was essentially to serve ports, apart from the routes to Scotland.
Any possibility of posting the other old Euroroutes, and perhaps we could get them listed on the site?
Marcel Monterie's site has a study of routes between 10 major European cities, which suggested that on those routes, the old Euroroute numbers would have been easier to follow than the old ones, as less of them would have been needed on the routes.
I seem the recall there were 101 Euroroutes, E1 obviously being London - Palermo, and E101 if I remember rightly was Madrid - Valencia.
Any possibility of posting the other old Euroroutes, and perhaps we could get them listed on the site?
Marcel Monterie's site has a study of routes between 10 major European cities, which suggested that on those routes, the old Euroroute numbers would have been easier to follow than the old ones, as less of them would have been needed on the routes.
I seem the recall there were 101 Euroroutes, E1 obviously being London - Palermo, and E101 if I remember rightly was Madrid - Valencia.
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J N Winkler
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Just to throw another observation into the mix: the National Archives (in Kew) has files which indicate that, in the mid- to late 1950's, the Ministry of Transport aggressively pursued an expansion of the Euroroute network with the explicit aim of developing its density in the U.K. to the extent that an inset would be required to show British Euroroutes, similar to what was already being done for the Euroroutes in the Ruhr district in Germany.
The civil servant largely responsible for this effort (Nigel Despicht) argued that businesses would tend to regard density of Euroroutes as an indicator of commercial and industrial importance. This meant that it was not in the U.K.'s economic best interests to be viewed as a mere terminal point at the periphery of the system. Despicht and his successors were able to add a fair number of Euroroutes to the system, though not as many as they had proposed.
In the late 1960's, this caused embarrassment when the Germans made what appeared to be moves to prune the system, and asked the Ministry of Transport how many of the Euroroutes in Britain were, in fact, signed. Naturally none of them were, since the whole purpose of the exercise had been to draw lines on a map, so the Ministry braced itself for a diplomatic fight with the Germans. An information request from the German embassy was deliberately ignored while the Ministry waited for the next move. Eventually higher-ups became involved and the Ministry officials had to 'fess up and apologize to the Germans.
The civil servant largely responsible for this effort (Nigel Despicht) argued that businesses would tend to regard density of Euroroutes as an indicator of commercial and industrial importance. This meant that it was not in the U.K.'s economic best interests to be viewed as a mere terminal point at the periphery of the system. Despicht and his successors were able to add a fair number of Euroroutes to the system, though not as many as they had proposed.
In the late 1960's, this caused embarrassment when the Germans made what appeared to be moves to prune the system, and asked the Ministry of Transport how many of the Euroroutes in Britain were, in fact, signed. Naturally none of them were, since the whole purpose of the exercise had been to draw lines on a map, so the Ministry braced itself for a diplomatic fight with the Germans. An information request from the German embassy was deliberately ignored while the Ministry waited for the next move. Eventually higher-ups became involved and the Ministry officials had to 'fess up and apologize to the Germans.
Been able to find the following links:
List of Euroroutes as of 1965, of course with the old numbers. (In Finnish)
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/sopimukset/sops ... 19650051_2
And, more tellingly, a link showing all route changes from 1950 to now, both old and new systems. Linked to from a previous post on this site!
http://homepage.mac.com/longueville/lijste.html
When looking at Euroroutes in the UK, I wondered in particular why the M5 wasn't a Euroroute, as well as why there wasn't a Euroroute to Aberdeen. Now I've found out both of these, and a few more, were Euroroutes in the past but obviously as mentioned above they were pruned down by the Germans.
Amazingly enough, Immingham Docks even had its own Euroroute leading to and from it, when the M180/A180 was already a Euroroute with a different number. Was surprised to see a London-Tilbury route too, especially when there was also a London-Southend route. Even though I realise many of these routes are/were about freight.
List of Euroroutes as of 1965, of course with the old numbers. (In Finnish)
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/sopimukset/sops ... 19650051_2
And, more tellingly, a link showing all route changes from 1950 to now, both old and new systems. Linked to from a previous post on this site!
http://homepage.mac.com/longueville/lijste.html
When looking at Euroroutes in the UK, I wondered in particular why the M5 wasn't a Euroroute, as well as why there wasn't a Euroroute to Aberdeen. Now I've found out both of these, and a few more, were Euroroutes in the past but obviously as mentioned above they were pruned down by the Germans.
Amazingly enough, Immingham Docks even had its own Euroroute leading to and from it, when the M180/A180 was already a Euroroute with a different number. Was surprised to see a London-Tilbury route too, especially when there was also a London-Southend route. Even though I realise many of these routes are/were about freight.
No probs. Can write up and post a list of the old Eurorotes sometime though those other sites links have helped. So the E8 did make it to Moscow.
Looking at the uk network it did 2 things. Firstly London was a staring hub for various important routes being a major city on the edge of the continent. Similar can be said of Lisbon, Stockholm and Rome.
The rest of the routes gave access to the major ports to Ireland and to Edinburgh.
Ps you are right about E101 being Madrid to Valencia
Looking at the uk network it did 2 things. Firstly London was a staring hub for various important routes being a major city on the edge of the continent. Similar can be said of Lisbon, Stockholm and Rome.
The rest of the routes gave access to the major ports to Ireland and to Edinburgh.
Ps you are right about E101 being Madrid to Valencia
I have I picture of the old E-road-system on my site.
(Beware, my site is in Dutch)
Link to the page
Or copy this url in your browser: http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/pics/gs/gs0706.jpg
(don't just click, that won't work)
(Beware, my site is in Dutch)
Link to the page
Or copy this url in your browser: http://www.autosnelwegen.nl/asw/pics/gs/gs0706.jpg
(don't just click, that won't work)
Any advance on this list from the RD?
Any dead Euroroutes? Please reply here or in the Roaders' Digest forum. Thanks.
Any dead Euroroutes? Please reply here or in the Roaders' Digest forum. Thanks.
Regards,
Paul
Paul
E4 between Malmo and Tournea is definitely from the old system, and should be now the E55, but was not renumbered because of cost (it being 1,000 miles long and signed for miles around on every road), or so a swedish guy told us.
I had the (mis)fortune of driving the enitre length the other week.... there are lots of trees, lots of S2+1 alternating carriageways, and very little else.
Lots more pictures on Scandinavia and comments will surface. at some point.
I had the (mis)fortune of driving the enitre length the other week.... there are lots of trees, lots of S2+1 alternating carriageways, and very little else.
Lots more pictures on Scandinavia and comments will surface. at some point.
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