A1 Darrington to Redhouse

[Berk]

Out of interest, if you need to go into Doncaster, how would you get there?? And which way would you come back??

[KeithW]

Out of interest, if you need to go into Doncaster, how would you get there?? And which way would you come back??

It would depend on where in Doncaster and when but unless its South Doncaster as I am coming from the North I would probably come down the A1(M) to J38 and follow the A638 (old A1) to the town centre taking same way back. Some years ago I went to the Railway Station to pick someone up when heading to Kent and I came back to the A1(M) along the A630 to J36.

In the hale Mary scenario where the A1 between Donny and Wetherby has turned into a car park the route of last resort would be up the A19 past Eggborough , round the Selby bypass and the York ring road. Come to think of it I might do that route again just for kicks, its not a bad drive and it must be 20 years since I went that way.

[Berk]

Thanks, actually, I was interested in how Nick would respond, seeing as he lives in Skellow, where the access is truly awful.

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

[wrinkly]

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

If they were to resurrect the 1990s scheme, the motorway would go under the existing A639 bridge, which would become part of an interchange. The motorway would absorb part of the present A1, so in addition to the slip roads, new bits of road would be needed to to connect up the ex-A1. Through traffic on the ex-A1 would need to go over the bridge. The main route from Doncaster to Pontefract would be along the motorway as far as the A639 exit. The main route from Doncaster to M62(W) would be along the A1(M) as far as its interchange with the M62.

[Berk]

That sounds like keeping a crossover interchange at Barnsdale Bar between the two roads. It sounds a little expensive, and pointless. I can’t really see what good it would do.

Much simpler to build the new A1(M) offline.

[A9NWIL]

Did you mean Wentbridge? If so, yes, and it'd be bananas to cross there.

At this point, the central fencing forms what looks equivalent to a stile (yes, a stile on the A1) that must follow the line of the right-of-way.

If you cross to the opposite carriageway, it looks like a (pretty nippy) pedestrian would have to cross the northbound, walk along the central reserve next to the fence (it looks like it’s wide enough for a person to walk along), and then cross over the southbound.

Hopefully you won’t get someone with a mobility scooter...

Someone on a scooter would be very likely hit as few vehicles would have time to recact and stop from 70mph!

[Berk]

I also doubt they’d have enough wiggle room between the fences, as they only seem broad enough for a single ped, not for any additional equipment.

[KeithW]

Thanks, actually, I was interested in how Nick would respond, seeing as he lives in Skellow, where the access is truly awful.

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

The point is to reduce the environmental impact on Skellow of high levels of traffic and provide a route for local traffic The new road is how you would get to the M62W. Pontefract is a different issue , with the fast heavy traffic gone and a roundabout at Barnsdale Bar you could use the old road and the A639. Now I think it may be possible to keep it as D2 providing speed and volumes of traffic are reduced by the use of roundabouts and speed restrictions.

[wrinkly]

That sounds like keeping a crossover interchange at Barnsdale Bar between the two roads. It sounds a little expensive, and pointless. I can’t really see what good it would do.

Much simpler to build the new A1(M) offline.

I think an offline route to the west would be more expensive as instead of re-using an existing bridge it would require a new high-skew bridge for the A639 and a new bridge for the A6201. Wentbridge and Darrington would be sandwiched between major roads.

[A9NWIL]

I also doubt they’d have enough wiggle room between the fences, as they only seem broad enough for a single ped, not for any additional equipment.

Well over time that roads that are dualled and 60mph plus had a non motorised user ban for their own safety! Crossings on such roads should be by footbridge only and a footpath thats separated by a concrete barrier should be used to provide non motorised user access even if the footpath was an unpaved.

[A9NWIL]

Thanks, actually, I was interested in how Nick would respond, seeing as he lives in Skellow, where the access is truly awful.

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

The point is to reduce the environmental impact on Skellow of high levels of traffic and provide a route for local traffic The new road is how you would get to the M62W. Pontefract is a different issue , with the fast heavy traffic gone and a roundabout at Barnsdale Bar you could use the old road and the A639. Now I think it may be possible to keep it as D2 providing speed and volumes of traffic are reduced by the use of roundabouts and speed restrictions.

Why would getting into Pontefract be an issue? There is a perfectly adequate junction on the M62 to get into Pontefract, or come off what would be an upgraded A1(M) early and use minor roads.

[Pontelad]

Thanks, actually, I was interested in how Nick would respond, seeing as he lives in Skellow, where the access is truly awful.

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

The point is to reduce the environmental impact on Skellow of high levels of traffic and provide a route for local traffic The new road is how you would get to the M62W. Pontefract is a different issue , with the fast heavy traffic gone and a roundabout at Barnsdale Bar you could use the old road and the A639. Now I think it may be possible to keep it as D2 providing speed and volumes of traffic are reduced by the use of roundabouts and speed restrictions.

A639 will be the only option for Pontefract from coming from the south once it's made a motorway (which is why the suggestion of not having a junction at Barnsdale Bar won't work, not to mention the access required for the SESKU villages). This road will need to be rebuilt between Barnsdale Bar and Thorpe Audlin. It's in a truly awful state due to subsidence. It's been like that all of the 25+ years I've been driving.

It's also not really capable of handling large volumes of traffic between Thorpe Audlin and Pontefract (with the access to Darrington, Carleton and southern Pontefract being quite poor).

Don't see any benefit to keeping the present line as a D2. It's not like this completely green belt land is likely to be developed anytime soon. D2 would be complete overkill for the 1000 or so people that need it for access to Darrington, Wentbridge and the few isolated properties. It certainly can't be justified for the traffic travelling to and fro Doncaster, which will be a tiny percentage of the current volume.

Skellow will need a roundabout, bet it's a complete pain getting in and out at the moment.

I would hope that the project is combined with an upgrade to the Donny bypass, if not we'll just being shifting the queue 8 or so miles south.

[Pontelad]

Thanks, actually, I was interested in how Nick would respond, seeing as he lives in Skellow, where the access is truly awful.

Thinking about the earlier posts, why would people want to single the old A1 here?? It is the main road from Doncaster to Pontefract and the M62 (W), for example. It’s for reasons like this that keeping it dual (but introducing roundabouts) would make sense.

The point is to reduce the environmental impact on Skellow of high levels of traffic and provide a route for local traffic The new road is how you would get to the M62W. Pontefract is a different issue , with the fast heavy traffic gone and a roundabout at Barnsdale Bar you could use the old road and the A639. Now I think it may be possible to keep it as D2 providing speed and volumes of traffic are reduced by the use of roundabouts and speed restrictions.

Why would getting into Pontefract be an issue? There is a perfectly adequate junction on the M62 to get into Pontefract, or come off what would be an upgraded A1(M) early and use minor roads.

It's a big detour to get to the 62 from there.

Not to mention the serious traffic you hit on the way into Ponte from that direction.

If you came off early at say the A638. That's not exactly a cracking route either. It's OK until you get to Ackworth apart from a dodgy bit around the bridge over the ECML. But shunting all that extra traffic through Ackworth is a total non starter. A bypass for that village is badly needed as it is. The A628 cannot safely handle any more numbers.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

It should be remembered that the current Barnsdale Bar junction caters for another traffic movement, i.e. the A1 to Hemsworth, Barnsley and the A628 and vice versa. The A6201 provides a southern bypass of sorts for Pontefract as traffic on the A628 is no longer required to travel through Ackworth Moor Top and Pontefract to reach the A1(M) and more northerly areas of Yorkshire. Therefore any new motorway should have an intermediate junction between Redhouse and Darrington to cater for this traffic, in addition to traffic wishing to approach Pontefract from the south.

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... itle=A6201

[wrinkly]

It may also be worth mentioning that the A1/A1(M)/A162 fork junction north of Darrington is clearly designed to allow the A1(M) to be extended south-eastwards. Going south on the mainline, you go under the junction bridge, then under a concrete gantry, then the road immediately starts to curve to the right. The future mainline could carry on straight or on a much gentler curve. I've previously posted a possible future junction layout, in which the currently northbound bridge would become two-way.

[NICK 647063]

Out of interest, if you need to go into Doncaster, how would you get there?? And which way would you come back??

Sorry Berk only just got back home and seen this, if I’m coming back from Doncaster I use the A638 old A1 then go up the B1220 around Adwick Le Street and into Skellow then it brings you back to the A1, without giving my full address I’m on Hill Crest which is basically the row of houses that stand next to the A1 southbound carriageway, we have a very narrow access road in front of us which is the street know as hill crest, if I’m coming from the south on the A1 then I go up to the A639 loop around and head back south to reach home.

If I’m going into Doncaster I just join the A1 south at the Skellow junction which my house is next to and then come off at Redhouse and take the A638, although the Skellow junction is awful as in very short slip road to join the A1 south quite often traffic is so heavy it’s actually far easier to join as people let you out, at quieter times by this I mean when traffic is actually traveling at 70 it’s harder to join as you are normally trying to join a line of HGV’s which normally leave very little gaps between.

[stu531]

Barnsdale Bar is pretty poor anyway for A6201 connectivity; it's not hugely well signposted anyway, and the proximity of the A6201/A639 junction to the A1 itself isn't great. There's a good reason to remodel the junction if the A1(M) does indeed get upgraded. (Unless anyone has an idea of how it'd look in future.)

[6637]

Not sure of what the AADT figures for this area are– but I can't help but wonder, will D3M be enough? I wouldn't be surprised if the stretch from A1(M) J35 to J41 would be better being upgraded to D4M. Especially considering the fact that once the current bottleneck is removed, some traffic that currently uses the M1 north of Sheffield might switch to the A1(M).

I hope the powers-that-be consider this option.

[c2R]

Not sure of what the AADT figures for this area are– but I can't help but wonder, will D3M be enough? I wouldn't be surprised if the stretch from A1(M) J35 to J41 would be better being upgraded to D4M. Especially considering the fact that once the current bottleneck is removed, some traffic that currently uses the M1 north of Sheffield might switch to the A1(M).

I hope the powers-that-be consider this option.

SABRE Maps has an AADT layer.

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... f_pt=26090

It's a lot.... although 15k or so under the A14 Huntingdon to Cambridge.

[wrinkly]

Barnsdale Bar is pretty poor anyway for A6201 connectivity; it's not hugely well signposted anyway, and the proximity of the A6201/A639 junction to the A1 itself isn't great. There's a good reason to remodel the junction if the A1(M) does indeed get upgraded. (Unless anyone has an idea of how it'd look in future.)

Could be a basic dumbell if they re-use the existing bridge as per the previous plan. However there'd have to be several roads off the roundabouts. In addition to the slip roads and the link over the bridge, the east roundabout would connect the eastward minor road and the southward LAR. The west roundabout would connect the A6201 and the A639. It could also connect the northward LAR, or alternatively the northward LAR could turn off the A639 a little further north.