$7.5 Billion Fenmarn Belt Fixed Link Project

[IAN]

I haven't seen much mention of this huge project on SABRE. It's an immersed road and rail tunnel, due to open in 2029, which will make a huge shortcut in the journey between Germany, East Denmark, and Sweden. There's an interesting YouTube video about it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYvXKQ ... nel=TheB1M

[Peter Freeman]

It's a very impressive project. High-speed rail, and road. Most projects on this scale are in China.

[Berk]

It’s an 18km road and rail tunnel: four bores, one each way, both for (trunk) road and rail traffic.

As local traffic will not be allowed to use the tunnel (to cross the Fehmarn belt to Fehmarn island), I imagine the last junction would be before the turn off for the Fehmarn bridge).

Also, the railway to Fehmarn island has been suspended to allow it to be dual-tracked and electrified - another benefit of the project).

It should be possible to get from London to Göteborg or Malmö in around 8 - 10 hours.

[Berk]

I actually remember the inter-governmental conference which signed off the crossing was in 2007, and the construction treaty was signed the following year.

Most of the delay has been due to planning consents, judicial reviews and agreeing funding.

That shows we shouldn’t let up with HS2, as these projects do take a long time to build anyway.

[firefly]

It’s an 18km road and rail tunnel: four bores, one each way, both for (trunk) road and rail traffic.

It will be an immersed tunnel, so no bores at all. The cross section of the tunnel will comprise 5 openings, one for each carriageway/track as well as one for a rescue path between the motorway carriageways.

As local traffic will not be allowed to use the tunnel (to cross the Fehmarn belt to Fehmarn island), I imagine the last junction would be before the turn off for the Fehmarn bridge).

The tunnel will carry a motorway and a railway across the sea. One will be able to take any vehicle which is motorway-worthy to use this tunnel regardless how far one goes.

It's a very impressive project. High-speed rail, and road. Most projects on this scale are in China.

You have a rather distorted perception of the world. There are half a dozen base tunnels in the Alps under construction or in service. There are already two large sea crossings to and from Danish islands in place. This one will be the third. The longest road tunnel is in Norway and the longest under-sea-tunnel connects France with Britain. If there is one part of the world which does large scale engineering projects like no others than it is Europe.

[ravenbluemoon]

It should be possible to get from London to Göteborg or Malmö in around 8 - 10 hours.

That would be welcome, but that sort of journey time is still a way off yet sadly. It'll cut the corner between Hamburg and Copenhagen - reducing the travel time by at least two hours and increasing the number of trains. Currently there's less than half a dozen trains a day and it feels very slow between Hamburg and the Belt Bridges. The new route could make Hamburg-Göteborg/Stockholm direct trains a possibility (with a reverse at Copenhagen).

To get close to a reliable 10 hour journey from London, the connection between Brussels and Cologne needs dealing with then. The current connection is terrible, if DB can even be bothered running it. In a perfect world, I'd like to see Eurostars running through to Cologne, change to a Hamburg bound ICE and then a train into Scandiavia - should be easily doable in a day from Nottinghamshire. It'll be a vast improvement on the 11 trains/26 hours from Mansfield-Gothenburg that I did last year!

[FosseWay]

Yes, it will cut journey times from *Hamburg* to Göteborg to under 8 hours, rather than the 10-ish it took me a couple of weeks ago going via Flensborg/Odense. There are two principal problems with taking the train from the UK to Scandinavia, leaving aside one-off vehicle/signal failures, strikes etc. One is the gap ravenbluemoon mentioned - there isn't one obvious way of getting from the Eurostar to Hamburg; you can do it either via Brussels or Amsterdam, but in both cases you then have to change several times. The other is Eurostar itself, which causes a bottleneck because of capacity problems.

[Peter Freeman]

It's a very impressive project. High-speed rail, and road. Most projects on this scale are in China.

You have a rather distorted perception of the world. There are half a dozen base tunnels in the Alps under construction or in service. There are already two large sea crossings to and from Danish islands in place. This one will be the third. The longest road tunnel is in Norway and the longest under-sea-tunnel connects France with Britain. If there is one part of the world which does large scale engineering projects like no others than it is Europe.

I retract: you're quite correct. Would my China statement be close if I'd said "recent and currently under construction"? ie. discounting the legacy structures in Europe and USA?

Coincidentally, I'll be in Copenhagen at the end of this month. Only for three days, so I won't hire a car, but still I hope to somehow get a recreational ride on/in the Oresund/Drogden crossing. Possibly a return bus trip to Malmo. EDIT: Trip taken - front upstairs seat on a Flix Bus. I was duly impressed.

[Berk]

As local traffic will not be allowed to use the tunnel (to cross the Fehmarn belt to Fehmarn island), I imagine the last junction would be before the turn off for the Fehmarn bridge).

The tunnel will carry a motorway and a railway across the sea. One will be able to take any vehicle which is motorway-worthy to use this tunnel regardless how far one goes.

That’s for international traffic. Traffic bound for Fehmarn island will still need to use the current bridge.

[Peter Freeman]

As local traffic will not be allowed to use the tunnel (to cross the Fehmarn belt to Fehmarn island), I imagine the last junction would be before the turn off for the Fehmarn bridge).

The tunnel will carry a motorway and a railway across the sea. One will be able to take any vehicle which is motorway-worthy to use this tunnel regardless how far one goes.

That’s for international traffic. Traffic bound for Fehmarn island will still need to use the current bridge.

I'm confused by the quotes above.

As I understand it, the new elements will be:

1. The Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link (the new very long tunnel from Fehmarn Island to Denmark, the subject of the OP).
2. The Fehmarn Sound Tunnel (a new shorter but otherwise similar tunnel, joining Fehmarn Island to the German mainland, supplementing the existing Fehmarn Sound Bridge, whose capacity is insufficient). The bridge will remain, for use of local rail and road traffic.

Traffic northbound from the German mainland to Denmark will pass through the Fehmarn Sound Tunnel, cross the island, and then pass through the Fehmarn Belt Tunnel. On the island, between the two tunnels, either the existing road must be converted to motorway standard, or a new motorway route built. I see no information about this cross-island route. Has it been stated that there will be no interchange on the island?

Please explain.

[Alderpoint]

Traffic northbound from the German mainland to Denmark will pass through the Fehmarn Sound Tunnel, cross the island, and then pass through the Fehmarn Belt Tunnel. On the island, between the two tunnels, either the existing road must be converted to motorway standard, or a new motorway route built. I see no information about this cross-island route. Has it been stated that there will be no interchange on the island?

OpenStreetMap shows an interchange just south of the the southern portal of the Fehmarn Best Tunnel.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/54.4831/11.2153

[Peter Freeman]

^ Well, that route across the island, except for its tunnel approaches, is the same road as is there now, but duplicated and an extra interchange in the north. That makes three interchanges. The existing two appear to be designed for adapting to a DC. If this is the plan, then the island is served by the new route, both northbound and southbound (not that the sparsely occupied island needs much serving).

However, I have a feeling that OpenStreetMap may be in error, as I read somewhere that the Fehmarn Sound Tunnel will be east of the bridge, not west as shown there.

Anyway, this is a storm in a teacup. It's a great project.

[firefly]

You have a rather distorted perception of the world. There are half a dozen base tunnels in the Alps under construction or in service. There are already two large sea crossings to and from Danish islands in place. This one will be the third. The longest road tunnel is in Norway and the longest under-sea-tunnel connects France with Britain. If there is one part of the world which does large scale engineering projects like no others than it is Europe.

I retract: you're quite correct. Would my China statement be close if I'd said "recent and currently under construction"? ie. discounting the legacy structures in Europe and USA?

I don't know any large scale crossings of topographic obstacles in China other than the Hong Kong-Macau-Bridge. And to be honest I don't expect China to built such things as their territory is far more compact.

The tunnel will carry a motorway and a railway across the sea. One will be able to take any vehicle which is motorway-worthy to use this tunnel regardless how far one goes.

That’s for international traffic. Traffic bound for Fehmarn island will still need to use the current bridge.

If you mean the Fehmarn sound bridge, then you should clarify this. This thread was about the Fehmarn belt tunnel so far.

And no, most road traffic between mainland Germany and Fehmarn will no longer be forced to take the bridge as they get another option. The motorway A 1 will be extended towards the Fehmarn belt tunnel. Along with the new railway the extended motorway will cross the Fehmarn sound in another new tunnel. This Fehmarn sound tunnel will be immersed as well and is yet to be built. The Fehmarn sound bridge will be retained as it carries an all-purpose road across the sound which provides the only fixed link to the island for non-motorway traffic.

[ravenbluemoon]

The Danish side will be getting some new infrastructure too. The railway is getting a lot of upgrades to get it ready for 200km/h running. Plenty of it has been upgraded recently in the Copenhagen area, in conjunction with upgrades to the Odense line. The other big project is a new bridge to replace the Storstrømsbroen between the islands of Falster and Zealand. The current bridge is shared by a narrow two lane county road (the motorway crosses elsewhere) and a single track railway line. The bridge has seen better days, and is a bit of a bottleneck for trains and anything not using the motorway.

The Danes really do have some skills when it comes to crossing water, much needed when most of the country is on islands.

*Apparently there's another Nordic country that's quite good with bridges and sea tunnels, but as a Swede in the making, I can't remember which. Begins with "N" I think

[Peter Freeman]

You have a rather distorted perception of the world. There are half a dozen base tunnels in the Alps under construction or in service. There are already two large sea crossings to and from Danish islands in place. This one will be the third. The longest road tunnel is in Norway and the longest under-sea-tunnel connects France with Britain. If there is one part of the world which does large scale engineering projects like no others than it is Europe.

I retract: you're quite correct. Would my China statement be close if I'd said "recent and currently under construction"? ie. discounting the legacy structures in Europe and USA?

I don't know any large scale crossings of topographic obstacles in China other than the Hong Kong-Macau-Bridge.

My "projects on this scale" wasn't intended to include only " large scale crossings of topographic obstacles".

And to be honest I don't expect China to built such things as their territory is far more compact.

Not compact, but contiguous / less-fragmented.

[Alderpoint]

However, I have a feeling that OpenStreetMap may be in error, as I read somewhere that the Fehmarn Sound Tunnel will be east of the bridge, not west as shown there.

There is another map here on the DB Engineering site, which would seem to agree with what is on OSM.

Also at 22s into the video clip on this page shows the line of the tunnel.

[Berk]

It seems I have been mistaken about this. The project envisages the B207 across the Fehmarn Sound to be tunnelled - basically creating a technical break in the motorway under the sound, but built to motorway standards (like A282). That just leaves a new motorway to be built next to the existing road across the island.

It is obvious that a new connection would be provided across Fehmarn - the old bridge wouldn’t be able to cope with the increase in motorway traffic (or the existing railway). I don’t know why the construction treaty didn’t legislate for this, it specifically allowed for the existing connections to remain on the German side.

[Herned]

I don't know any large scale crossings of topographic obstacles in China other than the Hong Kong-Macau-Bridge. And to be honest I don't expect China to built such things as their territory is far more compact.

There are loads in China, they have built a number of very long bridges similar to the Hong Kong - Macau link. E.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangzhou_Bay_Bridge

The motorways, especially in the west of the country through the mountains have some of the most extreme engineering in the world

[Berk]

More information here (in German)
and here (Google translation)

[Peter Freeman]

You have a rather distorted perception of the world. There are half a dozen base tunnels in the Alps under construction or in service. There are already two large sea crossings to and from Danish islands in place. This one will be the third. The longest road tunnel is in Norway and the longest under-sea-tunnel connects France with Britain. If there is one part of the world which does large scale engineering projects like no others than it is Europe.

Yes, the current longest road tunnel is the Laerdal Tunnel in Norway, 25km. The second longest is the M4+M8 tunnel in Sydney, Australia. This is 24km by my reckoning, daylight-to-daylight, all underground (though Wikipedia says 22km - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... ad_tunnels)

During that journey you will pass, but not traverse, five branches that lead either to active surface exits or to construction sites. If those branches were included in the current length calculation, it would total about 30km.

Under-construction extensions to this system will add the Western Harbour Tunnel and the M6 Tunnel. Further proposed extensions may add the Beaches Link Tunnel and an extension of the M6 Tunnel. They would allow a no-repeat, end-to-end, underground journey over 30km; and a total interconnected length over 40km. These are all twin tunnels of significant scale (D2 to D5).

Note 1. See how many times China appears in that Wikipedia list!
Note 2. A map 'NSW Motorways' that includes the M4, M8 and M6 can be seen in my post of 27-04-2019 in the topic 'Australian Motorways'. Page here -
viewtopic.php?t=33789&start=20.