Motorway junctions or bridges that were built prior to their road

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

The A2 intersected with the B2046 at a large roundabout before the route between Bridge and Lydden Hill was dualled. The A2 preceding the roundabout was dualled for a short distance with the original route forming the northbound carriageway and the new route forming the southbound carriageway. The roundabout was built in the late 60s and replaced by the current layout at Barham Interchange in the late 70s. If anyone could get aerial imagery of the roundabout from this time, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[xnx]

was there an overpass built with a unfinished road near the M6 west of Walsall as part of the black country route towards Wolverhampton? It was about 1982 and sure remember joining an urban dual carriageway via a slip road.

[Steven]

was there an overpass built with a unfinished road near the M6 west of Walsall as part of the black country route towards Wolverhampton? It was about 1982 and sure remember joining an urban dual carriageway via a slip road.

Yes, The Keyway.

[Owain]

I see quite a few bridges over the M5 getting mentions, but I don't think anyone has brought up this case:

Over a decade ago, when I was an M5 commuter, I recall driving regularly under a bridge that always had parked cars on it. One day there was a story on the local news about a road being opened, and a bridge that had been built several decades earlier finally getting brought into use for the purpose originally intended.

I think it was this one. If not, there are a couple of other candidates a short distance to the south.

[jnty]

I see quite a few bridges over the M5 getting mentions, but I don't think anyone has brought up this case:

Over a decade ago, when I was an M5 commuter, I recall driving regularly under a bridge that always had parked cars on it. One day there was a story on the local news about a road being opened, and a bridge that had been built several decades earlier finally getting brought into use for the purpose originally intended.

I think it was this one. If not, there are a couple of other candidates a short distance to the south.

Looks like you're spot on: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... =oneinch73

Streetview doesn't go back far enough to explicitly help but you can tell there's not much there, and that the road has been extended relatively recently, in 2009: https://maps.app.goo.gl/92NK97rjENPWGiU99

[Owain]

I see quite a few bridges over the M5 getting mentions, but I don't think anyone has brought up this case:

Over a decade ago, when I was an M5 commuter, I recall driving regularly under a bridge that always had parked cars on it. One day there was a story on the local news about a road being opened, and a bridge that had been built several decades earlier finally getting brought into use for the purpose originally intended.

I think it was this one. If not, there are a couple of other candidates a short distance to the south.

Looks like you're spot on: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... =oneinch73

Streetview doesn't go back far enough to explicitly help but you can tell there's not much there, and that the road has been extended relatively recently, in 2009: https://maps.app.goo.gl/92NK97rjENPWGiU99

Thanks - I wanted to take a look myself to see if I could find it in our historic maps, but I had to go to work just after posting!

[trickstat]

I presume the A1(M)/M25 junction counts for this? The roundabout always seemed rather large for the A1/A6 which would have largely catered for people from Barnet wanting to head north and those from St Albans heading to Borehamwood or Mill Hill. I believe it was a legacy of the Ringways project.

[RJDG14]

The A2 intersected with the B2046 at a large roundabout before the route between Bridge and Lydden Hill was dualled. The A2 preceding the roundabout was dualled for a short distance with the original route forming the northbound carriageway and the new route forming the southbound carriageway. The roundabout was built in the late 60s and replaced by the current layout at Barham Interchange in the late 70s. If anyone could get aerial imagery of the roundabout from this time, it'd be greatly appreciated.

Here's how it looked in on the public domain USGS imagery from 1973:

I can't see much of a roundabout but you can definitely make out the suspiciously far apart carriageways. It also looks like there may have been some embankment provision for a future upgrade.

[fras]

There's this bridge built in 1840, about 120 years before the motorway

Ha, Ha ! I don't think that one counts as it wasn't built in anticipation of a motorway. Nice try though !

[fras]

I'm fairly certain the M4 bridge over the railway, (Great Western Main Line). was built before the motorway was built, being intended for a normal by-pass. In fact, my father told me it was built pre-war. Of course, it's now on the spur to the old Bath Road, (A404 (M) ) This is a D2. I've actually been along this old section, including the bit now removed and abandoned near the junction with the M4, in my father's Vauxhall Victor !

[Ross Spur]

I'm fairly certain the M4 bridge over the railway, (Great Western Main Line). was built before the motorway was built, being intended for a normal by-pass. In fact, my father told me it was built pre-war. Of course, it's now on the spur to the old Bath Road, (A404 (M) ) This is a D2. I've actually been along this old section, including the bit now removed and abandoned near the junction with the M4, in my father's Vauxhall Victor !

It appears as under construction on the 1956 OS 1:25000 map https://maps.nls.uk/view/207353906 but nothing is shown on the 1938 OS Six inch map.

The line of the Maidenhead Bypass was approved in 1932 but the scheme was then postponed. The tender from Sir William Arrol and Company, Ltd. for Bray Bridge over the Thames was accepted in November 1938 and further tenders followed.

Work progressed into the war as shown by a Reading Standard report of 19 January 1940. Lt.-Col. F. O. BARKER (Chairman of the County Highways and Bridges Committee) made a statement as to the progress of the Maidenhead By-pass. He said he had been remarkably surprised by the work that had been done since last May. "You can see more or less the shape of the road" "and in dry weather you could drive right along it, with the exception, of course, of crossing the railway".

Work was still proceeding slowly in August 1941 and obviously there was a shortage of men and transport. I've not come across any later reports.

It would seem that the railway bridge was not in at January 1940, but your father's memories may have been for the earthworks or if the bridge was an early part of works recommencing after the war. The motorway opened in 1961.

[fras]

I'm fairly certain the M4 bridge over the railway, (Great Western Main Line). was built before the motorway was built, being intended for a normal by-pass. In fact, my father told me it was built pre-war. Of course, it's now on the spur to the old Bath Road, (A404 (M) ) This is a D2. I've actually been along this old section, including the bit now removed and abandoned near the junction with the M4, in my father's Vauxhall Victor !

It appears as under construction on the 1956 OS 1:25000 map https://maps.nls.uk/view/207353906 but nothing is shown on the 1938 OS Six inch map.

The line of the Maidenhead Bypass was approved in 1932 but the scheme was then postponed. The tender from Sir William Arrol and Company, Ltd. for Bray Bridge over the Thames was accepted in November 1938 and further tenders followed.

Work progressed into the war as shown by a Reading Standard report of 19 January 1940. Lt.-Col. F. O. BARKER (Chairman of the County Highways and Bridges Committee) made a statement as to the progress of the Maidenhead By-pass. He said he had been remarkably surprised by the work that had been done since last May. "You can see more or less the shape of the road" "and in dry weather you could drive right along it, with the exception, of course, of crossing the railway".

Work was still proceeding slowly in August 1941 and obviously there was a shortage of men and transport. I've not come across any later reports.

It would seem that the railway bridge was not in at January 1940, but your father's memories may have been for the earthworks or if the bridge was an early part of works recommencing after the war. The motorway opened in 1961.

Many thanks for the update.

[SteveM]

The two bridges at A3M junction 3 (Waterlooville) were built and completed the year before the main contract for the rest of the motorway. I think it was due to the amount of surcharge earthworks required at the junction around the bridges.

[2 Sheds]

I know that the grade separated roundabout at J4 of the M6 was originally built during the 1960s, a number of years before the M6 was built underneath it. This was how it looked in 1967:

https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/maps/ind ... =oneinch67

I didn't know that, even though I studied in some detail the original drawings of these bridges decades ago when I designed and supervised a substantial rewaterproofing of both these bridge decks. The deck slabs were suspended by Freyssinet hinges for anyone interested. It's quite important that water ingress into these hinges is prevented to protect the reinforcement.

[RJDG14]

I'm fairly certain the M4 bridge over the railway, (Great Western Main Line). was built before the motorway was built, being intended for a normal by-pass. In fact, my father told me it was built pre-war. Of course, it's now on the spur to the old Bath Road, (A404 (M) ) This is a D2. I've actually been along this old section, including the bit now removed and abandoned near the junction with the M4, in my father's Vauxhall Victor !

It appears as under construction on the 1956 OS 1:25000 map https://maps.nls.uk/view/207353906 but nothing is shown on the 1938 OS Six inch map.

The line of the Maidenhead Bypass was approved in 1932 but the scheme was then postponed. The tender from Sir William Arrol and Company, Ltd. for Bray Bridge over the Thames was accepted in November 1938 and further tenders followed.

Work progressed into the war as shown by a Reading Standard report of 19 January 1940. Lt.-Col. F. O. BARKER (Chairman of the County Highways and Bridges Committee) made a statement as to the progress of the Maidenhead By-pass. He said he had been remarkably surprised by the work that had been done since last May. "You can see more or less the shape of the road" "and in dry weather you could drive right along it, with the exception, of course, of crossing the railway".

Work was still proceeding slowly in August 1941 and obviously there was a shortage of men and transport. I've not come across any later reports.

It would seem that the railway bridge was not in at January 1940, but your father's memories may have been for the earthworks or if the bridge was an early part of works recommencing after the war. The motorway opened in 1961.

Had WWII not happened and the Maidenhead Bypass been built during the 1940s, would it have likely been built do a similar standard to the original Winchester Bypass?

Update: This is somethign I didn't know until now, but indeed, much of the earthworks for the Maidenhead Bypass had been completed by the end of WWII, with the road looking half built:

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-b ... 86_rp_3052

I had no idea about this until now.

[wallmeerkat]

I'm reminded of the Sydenham Bypass which was started in 1938, interrupted by war, then resumed and completed by 1959. Does anyone know if any prep work occurred in 1938-39, or during the war?

[RJDG14]

In the case of the Maidenhead bypass, the section that had been semi constructed just before the start of WWII (which lay abandoned for about 20 years) went from the original western terminus roundabout (which also clearly looked half built) with the A4 to just east of the Thames bridge on the modern M4. It looks like two bridges were semi constructed as part of the original 1930s project, one over the Great Western Railway (which was the most complete and featured several deck support beams over the railway, but no proper road deck) and one over the Thames (which had the support columns in place but no deck support beams or road deck). I suspect the lack of other bridges was down to design standards of the day - most of the roads that crossed the route of it would have probably had an at-grade intersection, similar to on the original Winchester Bypass.

[Ross Spur]

I'm reminded of the Sydenham Bypass which was started in 1938, interrupted by war, then resumed and completed by 1959. Does anyone know if any prep work occurred in 1938-39, or during the war?

The Northern Whig of 6 March 1939 stated that "considerable progress is being made with this eighty-feet road between Sydenham and Tillysburn" although a decision had not been made on whether the river crossing should be a bridge or tunnel. How much progress is hard to gauge. The Belfast News-Letter of 17 August 1938 reported a slow start with just 40 men employed who were consolidating the ground at the Tillysburn end. It was described as half completed by the 19 January 1943 News-Letter, which again is a bit vague, but it appears some work was done.

[RJDG14]

Did the RAF do any vertical aerial photography for Belfast during WWII in the way that they did for much of England? This would give us the best look at an unfinished Sydenham bypass, but I'm not sure if such imagery exists - I couldn't find it anywhere.

It seems like planning in the 1930s was done in a less planned way than what it has been since the 1950s. The 1940s aerial imagery of the unfinished Maidenhead bypass (which was probably planned to open as the A4) shows parts that look nearly finished (in their original form which never opened) yet also shows some short segments in the middle where there is no sign of any earthworks at all, and the two bridges over the railway/Thames are in the early stages of construction.

[RJDG14]

The 1972 map on SABRE Maps suggests that J10 of the M4, which I think opened in about 1974 (3 years after this section of the M4 was built) had its bridges over the M4 in place when the M4 opened, yet lacked the rest of the junction.