Three new A-roads, Warrington

[SouthWest Philip]

Just looking at the latest OS map revision and stumbled across three new A-roads - the A5280, A5281 & A5282 - all radiating south from M62, jnc 8. Seems to make a high concentration of A-Roads to serve what, I would guess, are business park developments?

[stu531]

I know that area very well having worked there for years, up until recently.

Omega South, which houses a new Asda distribution centre, as well as others, is being built to the south-west - the A5280 here, and it also serves the Lingley Mere estate (United Utilities). The A5281 has been there for a while and is mostly residential, and serves the new Chapelford estate. The A5282 is mostly retail, and is where Ikea & M&S are, amongst others.

It's unusual for new A-roads of a short length to be created, I feel, picking new numbers out the list - compare that with many other towns where short unclassified routes are. It is useful though for direction purposes.

[Bryn666]

Skyline Drive (the A5280) is a massive new road off J8 tying into previously unclassified roads as part of a huge business development so being an A road means Sat Navs will pick it up.

Burtonwood Road and Whittle Avenue (the A5281) were always unclassified but form a well used bypass of the A574 which is just hopeless with all the roundabouts.

The A5282 is interesting, as this is just a shortcut to Ikea from the M62 really. It barely deserves B status, let alone A. It is, however, being massively rebuilt where it meets J8 to sort out the numerous traffic problems there.

[c2R]

Just as an aside, this is what the works at the junction are aiming to achieve:
https://www.warrington.gov.uk/j8

[si404]

I've made pages: A5280, A5281, A5282. They are rather sparse and could do with some local knowledge.

[c2R]

Cheers Si. I've been trying to find any secondary corroboration of their existance - but there doesn't appear to be anything. We're correct to have the pages, as even if it is mapping error we should have it documented but it's strange that there doesn't seem to be anything other than the OS dataset talking about them.

[6637]

I've added these three roads to Openstreetmap.

[Bryn666]

The only way the OS will have said numbers, unless it's an exceptionally elaborate copyright trap, is to have been sent an updated copy of the National Street Gazetteer.

If all else fails a polite request for further information from Warrington Borough Council may be a good bet. Remember that Local authorities are in charge of road numbering (away from trunk roads!) now, and only have to confirm their changes via the NSG. The DfT will not step in unless there is a cross-boundary dispute.

[c2R]

It's in their opendata dataset so probably not a copyright trap... http://data.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/doc/5000005202157238

[c2R]

I've added these three roads to Openstreetmap.

I've altered your OSM edits as the OS map is wrong - the situation as described on OSM previously about how the A5282 has been moved to intersect the A5281 to the south of the roundabout was correct. This has been the situation since August.

The one way slip road from the roundabout to the A5282 was/is due to open this month.

For more details on how the junction will look, see here: https://www.warrington.gov.uk/j8

[6637]

I've added these three roads to Openstreetmap.

I've altered your OSM edits as the OS map is wrong - the situation as described on OSM previously about how the A5282 has been moved to intersect the A5281 to the south of the roundabout was correct. This has been the situation since August.

The one way slip road from the roundabout to the A5282 was/is due to open this month.

For more details on how the junction will look, see here: https://www.warrington.gov.uk/j8

Thank you.

I'd just assumed that if Ordnance Survey is displaying the latest information about road numbers they would also be displaying the latest information about road layouts there– but evidently not! Sorry about that.

[Alderpoint]

I'd just assumed that if Ordnance Survey is displaying the latest information about road numbers they would also be displaying the latest information about road layouts there– but evidently not!

OS can take an absolute age to update their mapping. They generally insist on using their own surveyors to provide updates to the map, rarely if ever using plans from the developer or local council, and they won't schedule a visit until the know the road is fully complete - and this can be six months later or more (much more in the case of new housing estates). This means that OS maps are to a consistently high standard, but that do take a long time to reflect changes.

By comparison, user-generated mapping (OSM, Waze) can be updated very quickly (often same day) by users with local knowledge. For example, the Inverness western link road was opened on Monday, and the updates done to OSM the same day. Such updates may not be 100% accurate as the mapping may be based on a best-effort guess rather than (e.g.) a GPS trace, but commonly notes are added to that effect, and the precise line gets updated later. This means that the mapping is updated quickly and can be used by online SatNav systems very quickly but will probably not be precisely correct.

Neither OSM nor Waze should be updated on the basis of a single source of information from the internet as you have no way of checking whether it is correct.

(edited to fix minor typos...)

[Steven]

I'd just assumed that if Ordnance Survey is displaying the latest information about road numbers they would also be displaying the latest information about road layouts there– but evidently not! Sorry about that.

Be careful about updating OSM based on OS data only. That OS data is copyright to them, and if someone from OSM finds out they'll not be happy!

[Richard_Fairhurst]

*someone from OSM waves*

[Steven]

*someone from OSM waves*

Oddly enough Richard, I thought of you!

[Richard_Fairhurst]

I think it's terrific that Sabristi are getting into OSM, really - it's how OSM works best: people with detailed knowledge (whether specialist or local), and enthusiasm, contributing it to the map. Long may it continue.

[Gazz S]

Late to the party on this one. I grew up in the old bit of Warrington near where J8 now resides (when it was just a road bridge leading to Burtonwood next to the services - well before all this new fangled stuff happened), but never had a reason to use J8 when visiting my parents (quicker to use J9 and cut down the A574). Anyway, in the 2 years since my last visit, my parents have moved about 1/2 mile up the road, and now the sat nav directs me to J8 as my new quickest exit.
The interesting thing is the motorway exit sign reads "Warrington West (A574)", but the roundabout sign when you exist has no mention of the A574 at all, only (clockwise from the bottom) Gemini A5282, Warrington A5281 (A57), Omega South A5280 & Omega North.
The question is....does anyone else know of another motorway exit sign that if you were following the road number that you'd get confused that the road just disappears? If these were roads built a few months ago, you'd assume that they just hadn't got round to changing the exit sign from when Burtonwood Road was still just Burtonwood Road & ultimately (once you'd picked your way through the numerous roundabouts of Westbrook) you would get to Cromwell Avenue being the A574. As I obviously know the area, I didn't pay attention to whether the A574 reference reappeared at the next roundabout.

[Rambo]

Late to the party on this one. I grew up in the old bit of Warrington near where J8 now resides (when it was just a road bridge leading to Burtonwood next to the services - well before all this new fangled stuff happened), but never had a reason to use J8 when visiting my parents (quicker to use J9 and cut down the A574). Anyway, in the 2 years since my last visit, my parents have moved about 1/2 mile up the road, and now the sat nav directs me to J8 as my new quickest exit.
The interesting thing is the motorway exit sign reads "Warrington West (A574)", but the roundabout sign when you exist has no mention of the A574 at all, only (clockwise from the bottom) Gemini A5282, Warrington A5281 (A57), Omega South A5280 & Omega North.
The question is....does anyone else know of another motorway exit sign that if you were following the road number that you'd get confused that the road just disappears? If these were roads built a few months ago, you'd assume that they just hadn't got round to changing the exit sign from when Burtonwood Road was still just Burtonwood Road & ultimately (once you'd picked your way through the numerous roundabouts of Westbrook) you would get to Cromwell Avenue being the A574. As I obviously know the area, I didn't pay attention to whether the A574 reference reappeared at the next roundabout.

Its just the motorway signs haven't been updated. When the junction was built the roads were unclassified. I believe it is one of only a few motorway junctions in the country that used to lead to an unclassified road (hence the A574 in brackets). Theyre still upgrading the three roads at present but along Lingley green avenue up to the A57, nearly all of the old blue bordered signs have gone now. Some newer signs don’t indicate the new road numbers at all. i only seen reference to them on an ADS sign approaching J8 from the west.

[Gazz S]

My parents did mention the "new roads" & it was a bit of a shock to the system as I could genuinely "remember when this was all just fields" (well the remains of the old Burtonwood Airbase that we used to trespass on when we were kids in the mid-to-late 1980s). I guess it's the fact that although I used to cycle to visit friends around Westbrook and even Burtonwood, I hadn't actually driven around there as I had no need to use J8 (I'd either use J7 or J9 previously).