M54 Extension and M6 Toll/M42 Jct Improvements announced

[Berk]

A lot of the major improvements to the West Midlands routes that could have been done are just too difficult or outright impossible now.

Nothing's impossible. Build the Western Orbital. It doesn't need to be a super-duper fully-free-flow D6M.

I was reading the thread about whether the M6 and M6 Toll should be(/have tolling) swapped. The elephant in the room seemed to be the M5 section - because it would appear to be unfair to charge people using the M6 from the north to access it. I take the point about most people in WM using the central section because their journeys start/finish there. But you have to do something to replace the toll income.

Would charging some classes of vehicles on each route better spread out the traffic?? E.g. HGV’s and coaches on the M6, and everything else (but not HGV’s & coaches) on the M6 Toll?? Or would it not make a blind bit of difference??

Or would it be easier to charge people using the central M6 if there was some sort of Western Orbital-style free route (expressway/not necessarily motorway) to link M6 J11/M54 and M5 J4?? Even if the charge was much lower than the M6 Toll?? £2/£3 each way, like the Toll route was when it first opened. If you took this option, you’d probably have to toll both M6 and M6 Toll, so there wasn’t a huge push to switch to the other one.

FWIW, I’m agnostic whether any of the schemes would work effectively, but you want to get to a situation where traffic is better distributed across all routes.

[Peter Freeman]

Would charging some classes of vehicles on each route better spread out the traffic?? E.g. HGV’s and coaches on the M6, and everything else (but not HGV’s & coaches) on the M6 Toll?? Or would it not make a blind bit of difference??

It would make a difference, but it's (a) too complicated and (b) an impossible sell to the motoring public, especially locals.

FWIW, I’m agnostic whether any of the schemes would work effectively, but you want to get to a situation where traffic is better distributed across all routes.

The glaring anomaly of the better route being the least used one will resolve itself when the toll franchise expires. How long left to go now?

The glaring anomaly that will not resolve itself is that, from a satellite view of the Birmingham conurbation, the western piece of an essential orbital route is missing. Ask M60 users or M25 users whether they'd like 30% of their orbitals to be returned to nature.

[Steven]

The glaring anomaly that will not resolve itself is that, from a satellite view of the Birmingham conurbation, the western piece of an essential orbital route is missing. Ask M60 users or M25 users whether they'd like 30% of their orbitals to be returned to nature.

Ahem, it's the West Midlands conurbation for a good reason! It's VERY multicentred, so London and Manchester-Salford aren't good comparisons. It's functionally and culturally two large cities that happen to both touch an extremely multi-centred medium-sized conurbation in the middle.

In addition, the various sections of motorway that might look like an orbital aren't designed to be an orbital for precisely that reason - the Western Orbital for example, is designed to improve connectivity to the western side of Wolverhampton and the Black Country; and to support long distance SW-NW traffic; and not for orbital traffic from, say, M6 Toll.

The other big elephant is that the all-purpose network is designed to access the M5 and M6 - as I'm fond of saying, look at the A454 either side of Wolverhampton city centre - partially grade separated and high capacity to the east; narrow S2 to the west. Discouraging traffic from the M6 in favour of a Western Orbital would instantly swamp all of these routes.

[Chris5156]

The glaring anomaly of the better route being the least used one will resolve itself when the toll franchise expires. How long left to go now?

The concession expires in 2056, so 33 years to go. But there’s no guarantee it will become a free route operated at public expense at that point; it could just be re-let to a new concessionaire, or the existing one allowed to continue with a new contract.

[Peter Freeman]

^ Oooooh! That's a long time. Most of AU's toll roads are 'BOOT', so all rights revert to the state on franchise expiry. I assume M6Toll's the same ...? So most likely toll-free then?

[Bryn666]

The glaring anomaly that will not resolve itself is that, from a satellite view of the Birmingham conurbation, the western piece of an essential orbital route is missing. Ask M60 users or M25 users whether they'd like 30% of their orbitals to be returned to nature.

Ahem, it's the West Midlands conurbation for a good reason! It's VERY multicentred, so London and Manchester-Salford aren't good comparisons. It's functionally and culturally two large cities that happen to both touch an extremely multi-centred medium-sized conurbation in the middle.

In addition, the various sections of motorway that might look like an orbital aren't designed to be an orbital for precisely that reason - the Western Orbital for example, is designed to improve connectivity to the western side of Wolverhampton and the Black Country; and to support long distance SW-NW traffic; and not for orbital traffic from, say, M6 Toll.

The other big elephant is that the all-purpose network is designed to access the M5 and M6 - as I'm fond of saying, look at the A454 either side of Wolverhampton city centre - partially grade separated and high capacity to the east; narrow S2 to the west. Discouraging traffic from the M6 in favour of a Western Orbital would instantly swamp all of these routes.

Yes, the WO is basically a bypass for the A449, it's not intended to relieve the M5/M6. The only way such a corridor would happen now is if there was to be massive development on the west side of Wolverhampton down to Kidderminster - which given the well-to-do nature of the rural areas this would affect means zilch chance of it happening. It is interesting that the 1923 Northern & Western Motorway followed a general line of what we'd now call the Western Orbital isn't it?

The fundamental mistake was when the decision was taken to bring the M6 right into the heart of Birmingham that D4M was not provided. The rural lakeland sections have D3M, so the notion that a section running through what was then one of the biggest industrial centres of the UK needed the same was insanity.

In a parallel universe the M6 would always have bypassed the urban area, having started on the Western Avenue in London. The current M40/M42/M6T line makes far more sense for the M6 than having it just slam into the M1.

[Chris5156]

^ Oooooh! That's a long time. Most of AU's toll roads are 'BOOT', so all rights revert to the state on franchise expiry. I assume M6Toll's the same ...? So most likely toll-free then?

Without finding and reading the contract, I’ve no idea - I’d assume it would simply revert to the state (or National Highways or whoever), but what the state would then choose to do with it is anyone’s guess. I wouldn’t like to predict what the transport landscape will look like in 30+ years’ time or what a government at that point might think is right.

Past precedent is very mixed. Recently the Severn Bridges franchise ended and ownership reverted to National Highways; the government directed them to abolish the tolls and take over maintenance directly. But in 2003 that the Dartford Crossing PFI ended because the cost of building the various crossings had all been paid off; there the tolls were retained as a “congestion charge”.

In short, I would not assume the M6 Toll will revert to public ownership and become free to use until I actually see it happen. Tolled roads are rare enough in the UK that each one is essentially a special case.

[Peter Freeman]

The glaring anomaly that will not resolve itself is that, from a satellite view of the Birmingham conurbation, the western piece of an essential orbital route is missing. Ask M60 users or M25 users whether they'd like 30% of their orbitals to be returned to nature.

Ahem, it's the West Midlands conurbation for a good reason! It's VERY multicentred, so London and Manchester-Salford aren't good comparisons. It's functionally and culturally two large cities that happen to both touch an extremely multi-centred medium-sized conurbation in the middle.

I won't dispute any of your points about the nature of the conurbation, nor its name.

In addition, the various sections of motorway that might look like an orbital aren't designed to be an orbital ...

Whether designed to be or not, M6Toll and M42 certainly do look like (two-thirds of) an orbital. A third piece would make whole one. Just as, in its later construction period, the M25 had its final piece fitted to formally turn it into an orbital.

A completed Birmingham Orbital would be similar in size to London's. Like most large orbitals, few users would 'orbit' Birmingham's, just as most journeys use only small proportions of M25 or M60. But each of the three orbital components do, or would, relieve stressed parts of M6 and M5. (M6Toll doesn't quite achieve it yet, owing to the toll, to revert to the original point).

The other big elephant is that the all-purpose network is designed to access the M5 and M6 - as I'm fond of saying, look at the A454 either side of Wolverhampton city centre - partially grade separated and high capacity to the east; narrow S2 to the west. Discouraging traffic from the M6 in favour of a Western Orbital would instantly swamp all of these routes.

"Swamp" - an exaggeration I think. The A454 is a nice road, as are its closely associated A463 and A4148. I'm sure it would continue to serve most of its functions after an orbital completion, even though that might, as I think you suggest, encourage Wolverhampton access to be from the west. However, such considerations should not stand in the way of an orbital. A new traffic equilibrium would soon be established.

BTW, considering that a certain route has long existed (as detailed in the wiki), perhaps I should have said "Build A Western Orbital" rather than "Build THE Westerrn Orbital". Many things change during detailed design.

[KeithW]

I was reading the thread about whether the M6 and M6 Toll should be(/have tolling) swapped. The elephant in the room seemed to be the M5 section - because it would appear to be unfair to charge people using the M6 from the north to access it. I take the point about most people in WM using the central section because their journeys start/finish there. But you have to do something to replace the toll income.

Would charging some classes of vehicles on each route better spread out the traffic?? E.g. HGV’s and coaches on the M6, and everything else (but not HGV’s & coaches) on the M6 Toll?? Or would it not make a blind bit of difference??

Or would it be easier to charge people using the central M6 if there was some sort of Western Orbital-style free route (expressway/not necessarily motorway) to link M6 J11/M54 and M5 J4?? Even if the charge was much lower than the M6 Toll?? £2/£3 each way, like the Toll route was when it first opened. If you took this option, you’d probably have to toll both M6 and M6 Toll, so there wasn’t a huge push to switch to the other one.

FWIW, I’m agnostic whether any of the schemes would work effectively, but you want to get to a situation where traffic is better distributed across all routes.

The real problem is the M6 Toll has been owned by IFM Investors since June 2017. This is a multinational investment company so it would hardly come cheap and compulsory purchase is not a realistic option.

[Owain]

The glaring anomaly that will not resolve itself is that, from a satellite view of the Birmingham conurbation, the western piece of an essential orbital route is missing. Ask M60 users or M25 users whether they'd like 30% of their orbitals to be returned to nature.

Ahem, it's the West Midlands conurbation for a good reason! It's VERY multicentred, so London and Manchester-Salford aren't good comparisons. It's functionally and culturally two large cities that happen to both touch an extremely multi-centred medium-sized conurbation in the middle.

I won't dispute any of your points about the nature of the conurbation, nor its name.

In addition, the various sections of motorway that might look like an orbital aren't designed to be an orbital ...

Whether designed to be or not, M6Toll and M42 certainly do look like (two-thirds of) an orbital. A third piece would make whole one. Just as, in its later construction period, the M25 had its final piece fitted to formally turn it into an orbital.

A completed Birmingham Orbital would be similar in size to London's. Like most large orbitals, few users would 'orbit' Birmingham's, just as most journeys use only small proportions of M25 or M60. But each of the three orbital components do, or would, relieve stressed parts of M6 and M5. (M6Toll doesn't quite achieve it yet, owing to the toll, to revert to the original point).

I'm not against your suggestion by any means - a continuation of the M40 to Birkenhead via Shrewsbury would be my choice! - but I don't quite agree with the suggestion that the Birming West Midlands conurbation lacks an orbital.

There is a box, which surrounds Birmingham entirely, and which provides access to the various Black Country settlements. If you were to take away a third of either the M25 or M60, then London or Manchester would have something considerably less effective than what the Birm West Midlands conurbation has at present.

I'd suggest that an orbital box for Bristol, or Sheffield, or Leeds (possibly even Leeds-Bradford) would be a greater priority than to provide what would effectively become a western bypass of two motorways (M5/M6) that already meet each other anyway.

The other big elephant is that the all-purpose network is designed to access the M5 and M6 - as I'm fond of saying, look at the A454 either side of Wolverhampton city centre - partially grade separated and high capacity to the east; narrow S2 to the west. Discouraging traffic from the M6 in favour of a Western Orbital would instantly swamp all of these routes.

"Swamp" - an exaggeration I think. The A454 is a nice road, as are its closely associated A463 and A4148. I'm sure it would continue to serve most of its functions after an orbital completion, even though that might, as I think you suggest, encourage Wolverhampton access to be from the west. However, such considerations should not stand in the way of an orbital. A new traffic equilibrium would soon be established.

I think Steven's concern is that the roads entering Wolverhampton, Dudley, Stourbridge and Halesowen from the east are far more highly developed than those entering from the west, so you wouldn't be able to build a new motorway without having to make substantial upgrades to roads like A41, A454, A456, A458 and possibly A459, A461 and A463 as well. I've driven several of these roads, and there is indeed a stark difference in character on some of them from east to west.

There would be a similar requirement if Bristol, Sheffield or Leeds became the beneficiary of a proper orbital as well. That doesn't mean it couldn't or shouldn't be done....

[Truvelo]

Two of the roads entering the conurbation from the west were to be upgraded as part of the Western Orbital. The A449 would be fully D2 from the Wolverhampton suburbs and meet the Western Orbital at a massive freeflowing fork junction. The other route was a planned extension of the Dudley Southern Bypass to Himley. Both these are clear indications that thought was given to the existing western routes being swamped.

But to relieve the M5/M6 of congestion doesn't really need a new route. I've mentioned countless times that the main problem is the merge at Ray Hall. Braid the northwest facing slips to remove the weaving then J9 can have four lanes running through it and problem solved.

[Bryn666]

Two of the roads entering the conurbation from the west were to be upgraded as part of the Western Orbital. The A449 would be fully D2 from the Wolverhampton suburbs and meet the Western Orbital at a massive freeflowing fork junction. The other route was a planned extension of the Dudley Southern Bypass to Himley. Both these are clear indications that thought was given to the existing western routes being swamped.

But to relieve the M5/M6 of congestion doesn't really need a new route. I've mentioned countless times that the main problem is the merge at Ray Hall. Braid the northwest facing slips to remove the weaving then J9 can have four lanes running through it and problem solved.

I've long questioned why Ray Hall is so massive (which arguably is good design given the volumes), only to be completely hamstrung by two piddly local junctions less than half a mile either side of it.

[jackal]

A decently aligned semi-directional T wouldn't be much different for turning traffic and would extend the weaving space half a mile or so in each direction.

[Bryn666]

A decently aligned semi-directional T wouldn't be much different for turning traffic and would extend the weaving space half a mile or so in each direction.

I suspect getting around the sewage works was the main driver, but there's room for a large semi-directional T on the east side, although this doesn't fix the J7 problem. I'd argue J7 is the lesser issue though, the queues are always through J9.

[Steven]

But to relieve the M5/M6 of congestion doesn't really need a new route. I've mentioned countless times that the main problem is the merge at Ray Hall. Braid the northwest facing slips to remove the weaving then J9 can have four lanes running through it and problem solved.

Only the northbound queues at best, though traffic is still very slow north of J9 up to M54.

Southbound would need a different resolution.

[Berk]

Back to the new A460… why hasn’t work started yet?? It was delayed for design processes, but have new tenders been released??

Or are we waiting for RIS3 instead??

[jackal]

BAM has exited the project. A new contractor is being sought. https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... ad-scheme/

[Truvelo]

BAM has exited the project. A new contractor is being sought. https://www.constructionenquirer.com/20 ... ad-scheme/

Let's hope it doesn't get cancelled because of this. Then again, if it does get scrapped and is resurrected in a few years then maybe the plan for J11 will be revised and will include the much needed freeflow.

[Berk]

Re-reading the press release, it sounds like NH fired BAM Nuttall, rather than BAM walking away.

[mbeatts]

Re-reading the press release, it sounds like NH fired BAM Nuttall, rather than BAM walking away.

Not true at all.