Needlessly long road numbers

[Bryn666]

I remember once (probably in the 90s), describing the route (from going north/eastbound on M56 to north/west-bound on M63 - now M60) and having to point out "don't be thrown by the 4-digit number".

The A5103 of course was originally just a local road that happened to have the M56 plug into it later. I've argued in the past that the A56 should've been rerouted down Princess Road (the old A56 west of Bowdon being renumbered as it serves no point) with the A556 being extended through to central Manchester. The A56 could then reappear at the west end of the M56 and take over that end of the A494 down to the A55 and voila, a single number for the approach to North Wales.

Yes that would be a better use for the number, it's possible to see on Princess Road where it was widened to be a dual carriageway by pulling down a row of houses.

Yep, the Moss Side gap wasn't plugged until the early 90s - it also retained a 30 limit when it was 40 either side. It's all 30 now of course, which is a joke when Wilbraham Road is still 40 despite being an objectively worse road, but MCC always reactively do road schemes and never see the bigger picture.

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

The A299 is a needlessly long road number for part of the strategic route between North Kent and London. In my opinion, a better road number for the route would be the A29, a needlessly short road number for a strategically insignificant road superseded by the A24, A23 and M23 further to the east.

[Patrick Harper]

The A299 is a needlessly long road number for part of the strategic route between North Kent and London. In my opinion, a better road number for the route would be the A29, a needlessly short road number for a strategically insignificant road superseded by the A24, A23 and M23 further to the east.

The distinction between this sort of situation and my line of thought is that your situation has to exist in some from. The two numbers could be swapped and it might be a better fit, but the three-digit number can't be disposed of.

My main interest is the four-digit numbers that could be subsumed into a two or three-digit route.

[AnOrdinarySABREUser]

The distinction between this sort of situation and my line of thought is that your situation has to exist in some from. The two numbers could be swapped and it might be a better fit, but the three-digit number can't be disposed of.

My main interest is the four-digit numbers that could be subsumed into a two or three-digit route.

I understand. In this case, I'd nominate the A3075 to be replaced by the A392 as they proceed in the same general direction and form a link between Newquay and the A30. The rest of the A392 heading into Newquay would be reclassified as an extension of the A3058. The new A392 would be classified as a primary route rather than a non-primary route for continuity.

[Chris5156]

My nomination for a needlessly long number is M876.

It replaces the A876, which means - by Scottish motorway numbering rules - M876 is correct. But when it was created, part of the old A876 was renumbered and became A88, a shorter and more important-sounding number and a ridiculous choice for a downgrade. That means there’s really no reason why the M876, which now parallels the A88, couldn’t be M88.

[rileyrob]

My nomination for a needlessly long number is M876.

It replaces the A876, which means - by Scottish motorway numbering rules - M876 is correct. But when it was created, part of the old A876 was renumbered and became A88, a shorter and more important-sounding number and a ridiculous choice for a downgrade. That means there’s really no reason why the M876, which now parallels the A88, couldn’t be M88.

It's worse than that, even, as both the A88 and A876 are entirely in zone 9, which probably means that the M876 should be neither. The A876 did, of course, once run west of the A9, before being upgraded as the M876 / renumbered as the (also out of zone) B905. The current A88 has never run west of the A9.

The obvious solution would be to extend the A977 or A985 west, but in my view the better solution would be to re-route the A91 over the far superior A977 route (and the A88), away from the slow crawl through the Hillfoots Villages, and thus the M876 becomes the M91. The existing A91 section could be lazily renumbered as an extension of the A911.
This could also give the A91 two sections of 'A91(M)' - the existing bit at J8 on the M90, and a new bit at J2 on the M91.

[Owain]

I remember once (probably in the 90s), describing the route (from going north/eastbound on M56 to north/west-bound on M63 - now M60) and having to point out "don't be thrown by the 4-digit number".

The A5103 of course was originally just a local road that happened to have the M56 plug into it later. I've argued in the past that the A56 should've been rerouted down Princess Road (the old A56 west of Bowdon being renumbered as it serves no point) with the A556 being extended through to central Manchester. The A56 could then reappear at the west end of the M56 and take over that end of the A494 down to the A55 and voila, a single number for the approach to North Wales.

Yes that would be a better use for the number, it's possible to see on Princess Road where it was widened to be a dual carriageway by pulling down a row of houses.

I've often wondered why the A56 and A556 numbers were not swapped over through the sections where they run in tandem.

Or - if there was a desire not to cause confusion between the M56 and A56 numbers both occupying high-quality routes in close proximity - why they didn't use A54 on the A556.

[Micro The Maniac]

My main interest is the four-digit numbers that could be subsumed into a two or three-digit route.

Fair enough - but often new/multiple two- and three-digit numbers are used when a single number would free-up some of those three-digits... possibly for four-digits.

eg: A35 becomes A338 (at Bournemouth) which becomes A346 (at Burbage) which becomes A419 (at the M4) which becomes A417 which becomes A438 (at Ledbury)... although the A417 also becomes A4172 separately

Why not use the A35 all the way through (or at least to the M5)? The residual A338 can remain from Burbage to its end on the A420, but the residual A417/A419 only needs one number, while the A346 becomes spare. The A35 through the new forest becomes the A33 at Redbridge, so why not just all be A33?

Ditto at Southampton where the A36 becomes A326 for no reason - the spur through Totton could easily be an extension of A33 (or be the A326)... and while I'm in the area, can we renumber A3090 back to A31 please?

[Patrick Harper]

My main interest is the four-digit numbers that could be subsumed into a two or three-digit route.

Fair enough - but often new/multiple two- and three-digit numbers are used when a single number would free-up some of those three-digits... possibly for four-digits.

eg: A35 becomes A338 (at Bournemouth) which becomes A346 (at Burbage) which becomes A419 (at the M4) which becomes A417 which becomes A438 (at Ledbury)... although the A417 also becomes A4172 separately

Why not use the A35 all the way through (or at least to the M5)? The residual A338 can remain from Burbage to its end on the A420, but the residual A417/A419 only needs one number, while the A346 becomes spare. The A35 through the new forest becomes the A33 at Redbridge, so why not just all be A33?

Ditto at Southampton where the A36 becomes A326 for no reason - the spur through Totton could easily be an extension of A33 (or be the A326)... and while I'm in the area, can we renumber A3090 back to A31 please?

That's the spirit.

[Nicola_Jayne]

There is no need for any 4 digit A roads in Zones 7-9. A large number of those that exist now are the result of lazy renumbering, particularly in zones 7 & 9
A7066, A7071, A8082 and B9119 were all B roads with the same numbers, and the A9000 is the former A90.

The A9119 came into being recently as a renumbering of the B9119. I’m sure a different number could have been picked, of course.

The Cross Tay Link Road is to be numbered A9294, linking the A9 and the A94, but again, something shorter could surely have been picked!

The latter is almost the kind of thing that happens witha mis-hear or mistype of notes ; the "A9 to A94 road" gets misheard / misspoke as 'A9 to 94 road' which is then minuted as A9294...

much the same as the Helicopter known in FAA and RAF service as the Merlin was originally the EHI01 (European Helicopter Industries 01 ) and became the EH101 due to a tupo in a either a Speech or Press release leadign to the Defence Minister at the time calling it EH101

[Owain]

The Cross Tay Link Road is to be numbered A9294, linking the A9 and the A94, but again, something shorter could surely have been picked!

The latter is almost the kind of thing that happens witha mis-hear or mistype of notes ; the "A9 to A94 road" gets misheard / misspoke as 'A9 to 94 road' which is then minuted as A9294...

You have to wonder why they didn't decide to make it part of the A94, and give the old road through Scone the less important number.

[Patrick Harper]

I think the non-motorway A74 could be changed to an extension of the A721, A74 repurposed for the entire M74—A74(M)—M6—A14 route, and A14 given to the following sections:

• A1198
• A1307 from Alconbury to Godmanchester

So the A1198 would be the casualty there.

[Summers-lad]

My nomination for a needlessly long number is M876.

It replaces the A876, which means - by Scottish motorway numbering rules - M876 is correct. But when it was created, part of the old A876 was renumbered and became A88, a shorter and more important-sounding number and a ridiculous choice for a downgrade. That means there’s really no reason why the M876, which now parallels the A88, couldn’t be M88.

It's worse than that, even, as both the A88 and A876 are entirely in zone 9, which probably means that the M876 should be neither. The A876 did, of course, once run west of the A9, before being upgraded as the M876 / renumbered as the (also out of zone) B905. The current A88 has never run west of the A9.

The obvious solution would be to extend the A977 or A985 west, but in my view the better solution would be to re-route the A91 over the far superior A977 route (and the A88), away from the slow crawl through the Hillfoots Villages, and thus the M876 becomes the M91. The existing A91 section could be lazily renumbered as an extension of the A911.
This could also give the A91 two sections of 'A91(M)' - the existing bit at J8 on the M90, and a new bit at J2 on the M91.

I like that idea, except that I wouldn't extend A91 over the (prize for the least appropriate number anywhere) A88. A906 is available for it but I'd go for A976.
Kilbagie roundabout to Kincardine could remain A977 (or become a B road).

[KeithW]

The A299 is a needlessly long road number for part of the strategic route between North Kent and London. In my opinion, a better road number for the route would be the A29, a needlessly short road number for a strategically insignificant road superseded by the A24, A23 and M23 further to the east.

That's the new road, the old one is now the A2990 which takes you through the outskirts of Whitstable, Sta. The A299, often simply referred to as the Thanet Way is one of the major routes in Kent taking you from Brenley Corner at the end of the M2 to Ramsgate which until the end of the 20th century was a significant port, much of the road is pretty high quality. I drove it in the 1970's on my way to the hovercraft terminal at Pegwell Bay
https://www.hhvferry.com/hoverports_ram ... ome%20base.

As for the A29 its one of the major arterial roads to the South taking you from the A24 at Beare Green to Bognor Regis. Much of it follows the alignment of the old Roman Road of Stane Street. I see no compelling reason to change either given the cost, confusion and possible disruption it would cause.

[Big L]

… due to a tupo …

Love it.

[rileyrob]

The Cross Tay Link Road is to be numbered A9294, linking the A9 and the A94, but again, something shorter could surely have been picked!

The latter is almost the kind of thing that happens witha mis-hear or mistype of notes ; the "A9 to A94 road" gets misheard / misspoke as 'A9 to 94 road' which is then minuted as A9294...

You have to wonder why they didn't decide to make it part of the A94, and give the old road through Scone the less important number.

It wouldn't entirely surprise me if the A9294 number is an internal project number that has appeared, almost by accident, in public documents, and the route is given a different (ie A94 or maybe A93) number when complete. The B9993 may disappear too. Unfortunately, on the basis of the B77 and B38 etc, I fear I am wrong, however.

I can almost see P&K Council doing a review as Aberdeen have done, and removing several A roads from the city centre, with longer distance traffic all signed via Inveralmond and/or Broxden. Certainly, the existing A93 / A85 route to the east of the Tay should lose a lot of through traffic, and if they decided to reduce it to a B road, the logic of keeping the A912 and A989 in the city centre is questionable.

[6637]

eg: A35 becomes A338 (at Bournemouth) which becomes A346 (at Burbage) which becomes A419 (at the M4) which becomes A417 which becomes A438 (at Ledbury)... although the A417 also becomes A4172 separately

Why not use the A35 all the way through (or at least to the M5)? The residual A338 can remain from Burbage to its end on the A420, but the residual A417/A419 only needs one number, while the A346 becomes spare. The A35 through the new forest becomes the A33 at Redbridge, so why not just all be A33?

There is no point in having a two-digit number for a route that isn't the main route, and A31-M27-A34-M4 is the quicker route from Bournemouth to Swindon.

[Chris5156]

I think the non-motorway A74 could be changed to an extension of the A721, A74 repurposed for the entire M74—A74(M)—M6—A14 route, and A14 given to the following sections:

• A1198
• A1307 from Alconbury to Godmanchester

So the A1198 would be the casualty there.

Renumbering M6 as A74? It's a no from me.

[Glenn A]

Another interesting one near me and a sign the road has some local importance: the A595 through Howgate and Distington was reclassified as B 5306 when the villages were by passed in 2008. The road received a Bxxxx number, rather than being unclassified, because it has access to a crematorium, a popular hotel, and Distington is a large village.

[traffic-light-man]

Rightly or wrongly, the A5758 often strikes me as a 4 digit number that seems a bit too long for what it's catering for.

Then again, there's several instances of that in the area in my mind, the A5036 and A5300 both being no exception, so I suppose it follows suit!