User talk:Luca nunnerley

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photo dates

Hello, and welcome to the wiki. Just a hint that the image upload control is expecting dates in the format 24 11 2018 (not 24th November 2018) in order to categorise correctly. I suspect that that in the format you've manaully used in recent uploads it will delete them if you re-edit the image. If you need any support or have any questions, please let me or one of the other wiki administrators know, or use one of our forums: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=5 (for technical and development issues/help) or Digest: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=49 for talk on the subject matter. Cheers, C2r (talk) 22:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

street lighting

Hello again,

I'm not sure how much you've delved into the wiki, but looking at your photos you clearly know far more than I about street lighting! We've got some wiki pages that were set up a long time ago on these -

Street Lighting

* List of Equipment Suppliers

and then some of the equipment suppliers have page, e.g. Philips Lighting ...and galleries linked to the page: Gallery:Philips Lighting ... .... with even subgalleries for particular models Gallery:Philips MA90

Feel free to create new pages/galleries to help you in categorisation of your own photos - we're on hand to help if you need any!

Cheers C2r (talk) 08:59, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello Steven/C2r, sorry to bother. Im just messaging to tell you that I have uploaded a certain image by mistake and it is now refusing to be deleted. Ive tried a few times and it keeps saying error. I was wondering if either of you could delete or remove it instead. Its the image with the green coloured street light that says Redditch. If it could be removed by someone else then great. Luca Nunnerley. Thanks.

Hi Luca - could you put a link to it please, so I don't have to trawl through all your uploads hoping to find the right one? Ta! Steven (talk) 20:55, 2 May 2019 (BST)

Hi. The image is only just at the top of recent uploads, but heres the link anyway: https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=File:IMG_5141.JPG_Redditch_outskirts_2

Categorisation and Galleries

Hi there,

I notice you've added a few new Galleries named after the street name. We don't categorise by street name, but by number - so for example, all of your "Birmingham Middle Ring Road" should be categorised under "A4540", "Willenhall Road" under "A454" and so on. Don't forget to look for Class III ones too - Neachells Lane is a Class III road and has the relevant article.

It's also a good idea to categorise by place as well (if we have a page for it - so all Primary Destinations have ones for example), so File:Wolverhampton, Night, Tram. should be categorised under "Wolverhampton". You also need to be careful about file extensions when uploading photos - ending the name with a full stop can cause problems. Steven (talk) 08:05, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and as an aside, you can get the lat/lon of any location by clicking on it in SABRE Maps. Adding locations then brings in a whole load of useful into the SABRE Wiki and SABRE Maps. Steven (talk) 08:13, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Can I remind you that we don't categorise by street name? I've cleaned up your "Riverdrive" gallery and categorisation.

In addition, please make sure that when you're categorising by place, you get the right one? You've uploaded a picture you've described as being in Cannock but then categorised it in the Wolverhampton category. Which one is it really in? Steven (talk) 20:19, 28 March 2019 (UTC)


Hi Steven, this is Luca. I don't know if you'll see my reply, not sure how or if you even can send back proper messages on this website, but apologies anyway for the category/gallery errors, I was rushing at the time. If you didn't know already, I do sometimes have difficulty uploading some of my images, as sometimes the thumbnails don't work and for some reason my account every now and then seems to keep logging me out when I don't even know. This is why I tend to rush through when I upload images. As for adding locations on maps, I don't tend to bother anymore because it takes too long and I never know if my upload will actually work anyway. If I have to re-upload due to an error or when Im automatically logged out, I have to go through adding comments, categories, galleries, etc, all over again, which is why I no longer bother messing about with the map location. Just letting you know anyway, thats if you can see my reply. Thanks, Luca nunnerley.


Hi Luca, Did you know you can edit the images subsequently to apply the additional detail, and you can paste the coordinates directly in - this is what I tend to do. I think Steven's point really is that without useful categorisation and metadata, it really limits the use of the images themselves when trying to find things in future. This is why I would recommend a few really good photos with good metadata to illustrate a subject, rather than quantity of uploads. The website is made up of several pieces of software, the forums, wiki, and maps being at the core. the wiki uses mediawiki talk pages, while if you wanted to send a private message you would be able to from the forums side (the usernames are linked) - we find it is useful when discussing wiki items for the conversations to be open. With regard to being logged out, this happens to us all occasionally (it might happen half a dozen times in an evening and then not again for a couple of months) and is something that we're trying to get to the bottom of. C2r (talk) 15:48, 29 March 2019 (UTC)


Hi C2r. Yes I go back and edit my pictures nearly all the time, to add dates and my name or to check for any mistakes. I know you can type in coordinates for the map locations, but I have no idea what those particular coordinates are. Do you tend to copy the coordinates off something like Google Maps or Google Street View, I just don't know??? As for private messaging on the forums, I think I may have tried it before and it didn't work for me. I can receive and view messages, but I don't think I was able to reply or send messages myself, but I'll have another look and try again when I can. Thanks, Luca Nunnerley.

You can get the correct latitude and longitude from SABRE Maps [1]. Just click on the map at the location you need, and the lat and lon appear on the left hand side of the screen just underneath the blue menu; and you can copy and paste them from there. Alternatively, you can find the location on the little map within the image upload form, again just zoom in, and click where the photo is of. In addition to what C2r mentions above, if you put in the location information on a photo, then it appears within SABRE Maps at the right location - so for example, try going to SABRE Maps, telling it to find a road number you're familiar with in the "find a road" box at the bottom of the blue menu (or a place, as it works for them too), and tick the "include pictures" box. All this stuff is built up from getting the metadata and categorisation right. Steven (talk) 17:29, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi Steve. What you've suggested with the maps is exactly what I used to do before, but my concern is that it took me too long. Can you go back to edit and try add map locations instead then by any chance, once the picture is already uploaded?? Ive tried doing it when I went back to edit, but it didn't seem to let you change anything. Thanks, Luca.

Hi Luca,
Yes, so if you've got several images in a similar area to tag, then you can have one window open on the maps to get the coordinates, and another to upload the photo. As soon as it is uploaded, and you get the "Error loading image" screen, you can click "edit" again and add the rest of the metadata and the coordinates by pasting the numbers in. For my images, I tend to do the initial work locally - so I name them datetime - location - 52.xxxxxxxN 6.xxxxxxxW.jpg which then allows me to simply copy and paste most of the metadata from the filename when I'm uploading. I can then edit to add further galleries, such as the places, or any signs that feature, or whatever.
With regard to adding places, I see you've added a Gallery for 'Bilston'. In order that the categorisation of galleries works correctly, our convention is that they should be linked to a place wiki page - you'll see that for Wolverhampton, for example, there is a place page Wolverhampton and then a Gallery of the same name - Gallery:Wolverhampton - the two of these link together, and that the Wolverhampton gallery is categorised under Gallery:Places in the West Midlands region. I appreciate that the categorisation is a bit complicated, so feel free to give us a shout if you don't understand.
Finally, as Steven has already said, we don't categorise roads by name (unless we're referring to a specific project) - so Gallery:Riverdrive (Tamworth) should not have been recreated and willneed to be removed - otherwise we'll end up with lots of roads such as "High Street" which will be fairly difficult to locate anything. I would suggest that you look back at these and recategorise as appropriate - I could automate the gallery removal but then I think it would be really tricky to isefilly find them in future.
Hope all this makes sense, please let me or Steven know if you have any questions. C2r (talk) 22:42, 8 April 2019 (BST)

Hi C2r. OK sorry for the categorisation mess up. I believed I was doing the right thing at the time, instead of adding to the same particular galleries all the time. So are the categories titled 'South Bay (Scarborough)' and 'North Crescent (Featherstone)' seen as in-appropriate as well?? And as for Bilston, can it be relocated in the gallery 'Places in West Midlands region' some how?? Thanks. Luca Nunnerley.

Yes, that's right - they're not appropriate as they're names of individual streets. Bilston can indeed be relocated there, but it really needs an actual place article creating or else it will get lost. Be careful about over-creating new places - they have to be somewhere that's notable in the road network in some way, so Willenhall is in there as there's lots to say about it with the multiple bypasses and the old turnpike. Somewhere like Featherstone really wouldn't have enough to talk about. Coseley is just about the minimum in terms of interesting things to have in the article. And as we said, we shouldn't have a place gallery without a matching place article. Steven (talk) 19:08, 10 April 2019 (BST)

OK fine. You or somebody else may have to remove those categories, because I don't know how to do so. I have now already edited and relocated the Bilston category, so that should be fine now. The same was done for Halesowen too. Also, Ive noticed on recent uploads that an image by C2r has an error and is without a thumbnail, just thought to let you know. Luca Nunnerley

Thanks Luca, I'll take a look when I get a moment, I'm on the road a bit at the moment. Thanks also for the heads up about the image - I thought I'd fixed that but clearly not! C2r (talk) 22:36, 10 April 2019 (BST)

Galleries without matching articles

Hi Luca,

I notice that you've added a Gallery for Wednesfield. To copy what was written to you a month ago:

Yes, that's right - they're not appropriate as they're names of individual streets. Bilston can indeed be relocated there, but it really needs an actual place article creating or else it will get lost. Be careful about over-creating new places - they have to be somewhere that's notable in the road network in some way, so Willenhall is in there as there's lots to say about it with the multiple bypasses and the old turnpike. Somewhere like Featherstone really wouldn't have enough to talk about. Coseley is just about the minimum in terms of interesting things to have in the article. And as we said, we shouldn't have a place gallery without a matching place article. Steven (talk) 19:08, 10 April 2019 (BST)

Please stop creating galleries with no equivalent article. If you want to create one, you need to create the other, or engage someone else to help you out. If you don't know enough to write an article about a place, it shouldn't have a gallery created. Steven (talk) 09:21, 15 May 2019 (BST)

Hi Steven.

Wednesfield is quite a fairly big and important town, just like Willenhall and Bilston, so thats why I thought I'd make it into another one. Sorry about that. Theres already plenty of images on here in Wednesfield posted by other users in the past from what Ive seen, especially of Neachells Lane. I think one of the categories is called 'U99 (Wolverhampton)' which is all based around Wednesfield. I think Ive added images in that category before myself. Maybe if some of those images could be transferred from 'U99' and added to 'Wednesfield', would that make it more acceptable? Also, I wasn't fully aware of the 'place article' that you speak of which has to be included. I think I understand a bit better how it works now. Sorry for the misunderstanding anyway.


Hi Luca, It's not the fact that you've added the gallery that's the directly the issue, nor necessarily that there's only a couple of photos in it - the main issue is that galleries without linked pages/articles will just get lost... So, when you created Gallery:Bilston, Steven effectively showed you what to do by creating a "place" article to go with it, i.e. Bilston. This uses a template and ensures that everything remains linked. However, Gallery:Wednesfield doesn't have a corresponding Wednesfield place. It's going back to the discussion we had previously about quality rather than quantity - I don't know the area well myself, so I don't have a view on whether Wednesfield is a big place or whether it is a suburb of Wolverhampton; however, if it is a town itself and there are things to write about it, then go ahead. Otherwise, if it's just a suburb, then the pictures would really belong in the Wolverhampton gallery. I hope that this makes sense; we're happy to answer questions C2r (talk) 21:00, 16 May 2019 (BST)
On the subject of the U99 (Wolverhampton), please do not remove any images from that gallery. It is a Classified Unnumbered road that happens to run through Wednesfield. You'll find other images that are of parts of Wednesfield in the galleries of other roads that run through the area such as A4124, B4484 or A462.
As we talked about above when you decided to create a gallery for Bilston, the critical thing to ask yourself is this. Fundamentally from a roads point of view, what can you actually write about that's interesting in Wednesfield? Well, there's a bypass of the shopping area which is mostly on a former railway trackbed, and well, that's about it. There's not enough there for it to be important enough in a roads sense that I could write about it in a useful meaningful manner, and I lived in or near the place for many years. Contrast that with Willenhall which is equally a suburb of Wolverhampton historically and functionally, part of the land granted to Lady Wulfruna for the foundation of the city, split from the Parish of St. Peter in 1848, had its own Urban District Council for a while and so on but it has a number of different bypasses, a historically important turnpike road, and a whole number of other things that are interesting in a road sense.
As we talked about a month ago, if you can't write a decent interesting article about a place's road network, then it shouldn't have a gallery either. Steven (talk) 22:28, 16 May 2019 (BST)

Hi C2r. I get what you're saying about place articles now. At the time I thought you were just warning me not to create too many galleries for certain places which could be seen to be unnecessary and not important enough. However, I don't remember being told or shown how to create a place gallery article if Im being honest. I didn't quite understand what you and Steven actually meant you see. The last gallery made (which I think was Bilston) has got a link page article now, but that wasn't my doing, someone else must of created it after I made it and I don't know how. Do you click on the Wednesfield gallery, go to edit, and create it from there? If not, you'll have to remind me how. Apologies. Thanks.

Hi Steven. I would never touch any of the images in the U99 gallery that did not belong to me. I was only really referring to my own images, so not to worry. I was just suggesting and asking if it would be a better idea to add those images to the Wednesfield gallery as well. As for the few examples and info you've given about Wednesfield, I would mention those things in the article link, and would add some info of my own if I can, but I just need to know how to make an article page. Apologies. Thanks.


Read and digest Help:Wiki Guides/Places which talks all about how to create an article about a place and the things you need to think about in plain language. If you're not sure, then just ask. You can create a new page simply by doing a search for that page which seems a little counter-intuitive. Also don't forget that Wednesfield isn't just that part of the world around the shopping area - historically it also included areas such as Heath Town and New Invention, right out to the M6 at Sneyd Brook. This may give you enough to be able to write about if you look carefully. Remember that place boundaries are not the same as local authority ones!
If the decision is to keep Wednesfield as you feel enough can be written about it, then yes, go through the galleries of roads that run through the area and add relevant images to the gallery. Remember that images can be tagged to more than one location, so it's probably sensible to leave them also tagged as Wolverhampton as that's the place most people will look for. Steven (talk) 10:09, 17 May 2019 (BST)

Hi Steven/C2r. I have successfully created a page for Wednesfield. Its only as basic as the Halesowen one for now though, as I found it a bit complicated. I'll start adding some of my previous photos to the Wednesfield gallery if thats alright with you. Ive tried to do what you said anyway. Whether you approve of what Ive done is up to you to decide, but if not then you can let me know. Thanks.

I've now added a pile of information to that page, so please take a good look at it and see how it all works and what is possible - always aim for quality rather than quantity whether that be in photos or in articles with galleries! By the way, please don't just copy text from Wikipedia - I've had to remove that as it's against their licensing. Steven (talk) 13:11, 19 May 2019 (BST)

Hello. Ive recently taken photos that I wish to share at some point which were all around Wednesbury. There doesn't seem to be any pages and links for the town, so I was just wondering whether if it would be appropriate to create a new gallery and article for it? Thanks

As we've said on a number of occasions now, can you write a decent article about Wednesbury that's of similar length and standard to the current version of the Bilston, Willenhall or Coseley articles? That should give you the answer. Note that Wednesfield needs some history adding, so don't take that one as appropriate yet. Steven (talk) 07:43, 21 May 2019 (BST)

Hi. Right well I only know basic knowledge about these towns, not so much all the history of them. If I am unable to add certain pictures to galleries of particular individual towns, could any images be added into the 'Places in the West Midlands region'? Thanks

No, because that will equally lose them. There are a number of possibilities. You could do a little research, like looking at old maps on SABRE Maps, read a few road articles in the town in question to find out some information, find a local history site (but do not plagiarise) that sort of thing. That's what the rest of us have to do!
Alternatively, you can think about the place in question. If you've read and understood the help pages we pointed you at earlier then you will have learned that places have fuzzy edges, and that administrative boundaries are not the same as places. Ask yourself whether Wednesbury falls economically, functionally or historically as part of another location, like Willenhall is part of Wolverhampton on all counts despite being administered by Walsall MBC. Again it will require a little research on your part but quality over quantity. Steven (talk) 08:17, 22 May 2019 (BST)

OK well Im only asking because I always need to add to a gallery you see, or else I can't upload. I may try and give it go at doing research and making an article when I have the chance, but it might take a bit of time to do. The other problem last time as well is that some of the info I put was copyright apparently, so Im a bit wary and unsure of what I can actually say now too. One thing I do know is that Wednesbury was historically part of Staffordshire, so for now, would it be acceptable to add a few Wednesbury pictures to the Staffordshire gallery?? Thanks.

Hi Luca,
Yes, you do need to add to a gallery... The point of the galleries, as Steven has said, is to categorise the photographs. The gallery should have a corresponding wiki page, as I explained above which adds some context for why the photograph exists here.
To put it plainly, the photograph upload facility exists to illustrate the article; what you are doing is mass uploading photographs, some of which you are unable to categorise, e.g. Wednesbury car park street lighting - simply adding a gallery for the suburb that it exists within isn't necessarily helpful - if there's nothing interesting roads related to say about the suburb, then it doesn't make sense for it to have a page, or a gallery. True, the street lights are interesting to a degree and the photo isn't bad; but as they are the subject of the photo, it would be useful to do some research into finding out what they are, and then creating them a gallery under manufacturer and model.
With regard to copyright, did you not learn about referencing at school/college? It's fine to quote, and reference, but not fine to plagerise. It's the difference between research and theft!
Hope this makes sense, C2r (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2019 (BST)

Hi C2r. When it comes to the copyright issue, I wrote down what Ive looked up, but I always write the information into my own wording. Im sure I didn't copy anything exact. Was it because I may have copied and pasted some information before putting it into my own words? Thanks.

Also, I did not realise that nearly all these galleries have article/web pages too, so apologies for that as well.

Hi Luca, no need for apolgies, we're trying to be helpful to encourage good contributions and articles. With regard to copyright and plagerism, it's a very difficult line - generally simply reordering the words isn't considered sufficient to avoid attribution - they're not your thoughts; they're the thoughts of the original author. However, of course, some statements of fact are general knowledge - it would be very difficult to assert copyright over the fact that Wolverhampton is an urban area in the West Midlands region of England, for example! However, where it is clear that the information is derived from another source, as Steven was able to do, the information should be attributed with a link back to the source article.
For example, you could write: The Alustar is traffic signal by Swarco, with light field diameter options of 100mm, 210mm, or 300mm2
REFERENCES
1 ....
2 https://www.swarco.com/sites/default/files/public/downloads/2019-02/SWARCO_folder_signalgeber_EN_screen_1.pdf
You could also visit local archives to obtain information - for example, I can see from googling that the following items are held in Wolverhampton Archives and Local Studies about Wednesfield Way:
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB149_P_1431/ - photograph of the Wednesfield Way road under construction
http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB149_LS_LW388/ - 1994 consultation leaflet
Clearly also things you have observed such as "construction started in May 2019" don't need attribution, as you were there and saw it!
I hope this makes sense; we're not trying to prevent contribution, just to preserve the integrity of the site in terms of copyright and also try and ensure a good quality of conribution to the resource. (Did you also know that if you put four of this character together, it will sign your posts) ~
I hope this helps C2r (talk) 11:47, 27 May 2019 (BST)

Hi.

OK then well I think I'll leave creating anymore articles from now on, its all quite complicated anyway. I was just suggesting it at the time because I didn't know what gallery to add a couple of images of mine to, but thats sorted now. In future I'll just stick to adding a few images every now and then like you said and not create too many galleries. Thank you for the advice and making it clear. Luca Nunnerley